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A Razor Cannot Be "Efficient"

Somnos said:
Y

Yeah but you ride motorcycles...I have rode scooters...and crashed them...BOTH TIMES, ON TWO DIFFERENT CONTINENTS...A DECADE APART! So no, my odds? Suck! :p Now I wonā€™t say there may have been ā€œotherā€ factors involved...but nay, nay...
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Motorcycles are easy. Being a "Dreamy Supermodel" is tough stuff. I got tired of all that travel!
 
I am a man of science so I know there is real science behind how razors function (Do we know for sure if Gillette did the math when they made these things or did they just say "hey, that looks good lets do it like that"?) I say this only to agree with EVERYONE that makes an argument that the slot design, gap, plate thickness and angle etc influence how the blade might cut ...BUT I also want to interject that ALL of those wonderful (and probably accurate) reasons for one razor to perform differently from the other are based on very minute differences that amount to very, very small mathematical differences. On paper those small numerical differences are meaningful and would support an argument very well but in practice (MAN putting razor to fat face covered with lather while looking onto mirror) the introduction of variables eats away at the math.

Let's look at the straight razor for a moment... the geometry of the average straight razor typically allows for a bevel angle anywhere in the 16 to 19 degree range, a well used and abused vintage might end up with a bevel angle nearing 14 degrees (watch out!) and a fresh shave ready gold dollar might be pushing 22-24 (good luck). The user might allow the spine of the razor to ride very close to the face or be noticeably distant from the face, and the technique might change depending on where on his face he is shaving. Point being, the straight razor is designed using geometry (science) to ensure a shaving quality bevel angle is consistently possible and easily maintained, yet scientifically speaking, there is very little precision in how it is actually used. But, when a user is proficient with a straight razor they will tell you it is at least as comfortable and capable as the most precise DE safety razor if not vastly superior to the average safety razor. How can that be? The average safety razor is purposefully designed to achieve optimal blade exposure and angles and the blades are precision ground and fresh but a straight razor with all its "freedom" given to the user provides a result that is at a minimum as good as the safety razor?

All of this leads me to my own list of what I find important in a razor. I want a razor that holds the blade rigid and I want it to feel appropriately heavy or bulky in my hand such that it feels in hand like the tool that it is. I will compensate for the other factors as long as the razor provides the proper heft and holds the blade rigid. I find the pre-war and war time Gillette line generally consistent in its heft and ability to hold a blade properly rigid. That doesn't mean I haven't found others along the line that have done well in those two categories. Single edge razors like the injector are KINGS of the rigid blade as are the GEM style.

...and we can self moderate as long as we can keep the Dave's fed (and medicated)
 
CBLindsay said:
I am a man of science so I know there is real science behind how razors function (Do we know for sure if Gillette did the math when they made these things or did they just say "hey, that looks good lets do it like that"?) I say this only to agree with EVERYONE that makes an argument that the slot design, gap, plate thickness and angle etc influence how the blade might cut ...BUT I also want to interject that ALL of those wonderful (and probably accurate) reasons for one razor to perform differently from the other are based on very minute differences that amount to very, very small mathematical differences. On paper those small numerical differences are meaningful and would support an argument very well but in practice (MAN putting razor to fat face covered with lather while looking onto mirror) the introduction of variables eats away at the math.

Let's look at the straight razor for a moment... the geometry of the average straight razor typically allows for a bevel angle anywhere in the 16 to 19 degree range, a well used and abused vintage might end up with a bevel angle nearing 14 degrees (watch out!) and a fresh shave ready gold dollar might be pushing 22-24 (good luck). The user might allow the spine of the razor to ride very close to the face or be noticeably distant from the face, and the technique might change depending on where on his face he is shaving. Point being, the straight razor is designed using geometry (science) to ensure a shaving quality bevel angle is consistently possible and easily maintained, yet scientifically speaking, there is very little precision in how it is actually used. But, when a user is proficient with a straight razor they will tell you it is at least as comfortable and capable as the most precise DE safety razor if not vastly superior to the average safety razor. How can that be? The average safety razor is purposefully designed to achieve optimal blade exposure and angles and the blades are precision ground and fresh but a straight razor with all its "freedom" given to the user provides a result that is at a minimum as good as the safety razor?

All of this leads me to my own list of what I find important in a razor. I want a razor that holds the blade rigid and I want it to feel appropriately heavy or bulky in my hand such that it feels in hand like the tool that it is. I will compensate for the other factors as long as the razor provides the proper heft and holds the blade rigid. I find the pre-war and war time Gillette line generally consistent in its heft and ability to hold a blade properly rigid. That doesn't mean I haven't found others along the line that have done well in those two categories. Single edge razors like the injector are KINGS of the rigid blade as are the GEM style.

...and we can self moderate as long as we can keep the Dave's fed (and medicated)
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Took the words from my mouth. My razors have an infinite gap, shave at all crazy angles, and if freshly honed, result in zero irritation. I don't know about all these other parameters, there's just too many to keep track of . . . .
 
CBLindsay said:
I am a man of science so I know there is real science behind how razors function (Do we know for sure if Gillette did the math when they made these things or did they just say "hey, that looks good lets do it like that"?) I say this only to agree with EVERYONE that makes an argument that the slot design, gap, plate thickness and angle etc influence how the blade might cut ...BUT I also want to interject that ALL of those wonderful (and probably accurate) reasons for one razor to perform differently from the other are based on very minute differences that amount to very, very small mathematical differences. On paper those small numerical differences are meaningful and would support an argument very well but in practice (MAN putting razor to fat face covered with lather while looking onto mirror) the introduction of variables eats away at the math.

Let's look at the straight razor for a moment... the geometry of the average straight razor typically allows for a bevel angle anywhere in the 16 to 19 degree range, a well used and abused vintage might end up with a bevel angle nearing 14 degrees (watch out!) and a fresh shave ready gold dollar might be pushing 22-24 (good luck). The user might allow the spine of the razor to ride very close to the face or be noticeably distant from the face, and the technique might change depending on where on his face he is shaving. Point being, the straight razor is designed using geometry (science) to ensure a shaving quality bevel angle is consistently possible and easily maintained, yet scientifically speaking, there is very little precision in how it is actually used. But, when a user is proficient with a straight razor they will tell you it is at least as comfortable and capable as the most precise DE safety razor if not vastly superior to the average safety razor. How can that be? The average safety razor is purposefully designed to achieve optimal blade exposure and angles and the blades are precision ground and fresh but a straight razor with all its "freedom" given to the user provides a result that is at a minimum as good as the safety razor?

All of this leads me to my own list of what I find important in a razor. I want a razor that holds the blade rigid and I want it to feel appropriately heavy or bulky in my hand such that it feels in hand like the tool that it is. I will compensate for the other factors as long as the razor provides the proper heft and holds the blade rigid. I find the pre-war and war time Gillette line generally consistent in its heft and ability to hold a blade properly rigid. That doesn't mean I haven't found others along the line that have done well in those two categories. Single edge razors like the injector are KINGS of the rigid blade as are the GEM style.

...and we can self moderate as long as we can keep the Dave's fed (and medicated)
Click to expand...

Very well put. There are many variables to consider. YMMV and experience is key. It's not easy giving advice on wet shaving! lol

Try it all and don't be afraid to cut yourself. Yeah, I like that. :unsure:
 
CBLindsay said:
...Let's look at the straight razor for a moment...

Single edge razors like the injector are KINGS of the rigid blade as are the GEM style...
Click to expand...


Yes, I think that blade rigidity, and in the case of the cutthroat coupled with mass, are the keys here. When I have a multi-day beard I reach for an injector as it scythes down a heavy beard easily with good prep.
 
I still can't get my little mind to grasp how the weight or mass of a razor impacts hair cutting. A properly honed razor edge explodes hair on contact, why would anything behind that edge impact the hair being cut? And if the weight of the razor is a factor, other than perhaps being easier for shakes hands to hold steadier, isn't the razor in free fall (e.g., not being held up)?
 
Brew said:
I still can't get my little mind to grasp how the weight or mass of a razor impacts hair cutting. A properly honed razor edge explodes hair on contact, why would anything behind that edge impact the hair being cut? And if the weight of the razor is a factor, other than perhaps being easier for shakes hands to hold steadier, isn't the razor in free fall (e.g., not being held up)?
Click to expand...
An edge against 1 hair and yeah that's what happens. There is a slight resistance even in that 1 hair but its negligible by itself. Get a few hundred of it friends with it all at once and the weight begins to matter.

I personally also just really like the feel of a heavy razor. It helps me remember to keep a light touch.
 
Brew said:
I still can't get my little mind to grasp how the weight or mass of a razor impacts hair cutting. A properly honed razor edge explodes hair on contact, why would anything behind that edge impact the hair being cut? And if the weight of the razor is a factor, other than perhaps being easier for shakes hands to hold steadier, isn't the razor in free fall (e.g., not being held up)?
Click to expand...
For me, I know mass and heft DO aid in achieving a more comfortable and stable grip. I donā€™t know if (or why) a few extra grams of mass would make a blade cut better BUT I DO think itā€™s possible overall heft (bulk, mass, size) lends itself to smoother, more fluid strokes. Much the same way longer, heavier barrels on a sporting clays shotgun slow and smooth movements. It may be all be in my head but thatā€™s where the voices are so I have to believe there may some validity to my perspective.
 
Let's assume a hypothetical, perfectly flat skin surface that grows hair. Let's also assume a mechanical shaving machine that holds razors just so to perfectly shave hair from the hypothetical skin surface. All things otherwise being equal, do you think a heavier razor is going to shave the hypothetical skin better?
 
Hypothetically in a situation where a mechanism is securely holding a razor at a set angle and pressure, no. Real world where everyone is different, possibly. At least with a DE/SE type razor.
If you use a tight grip and move your hand/arm to maintain angle, most likely not. If you use a loose grip and just guide the razor along, I'd say yes because you are letting the razor do the work. Loose grip is a bit difficult to do with a straight and not leak.
 
Let's try it this way. We all recall hearing of barbers' lessons involving learning to shave cream from a balloon. Does anyone think a heavier razor does this better (more efficiently, etc.) than a lighter razor? If so, please explain the mechanics that enables this.




I'll wait here.
 
With a heavier razor it's easier to let the weight of the razor do its thing. With lighter razors, it's easier for the stubble to interfere with the motion of the blade, as uacowboy pointed out, and thus causing you to need to add more pressure, or at least some more force in aiding the razor to move along on its merry way. This applies to DE/SE and straights.
 
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