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A Razor Cannot Be "Efficient"

Brew said:
Let's assume a hypothetical, perfectly flat skin surface that grows hair. Let's also assume a mechanical shaving machine that holds razors just so to perfectly shave hair from the hypothetical skin surface. All things otherwise being equal, do you think a heavier razor is going to shave the hypothetical skin better?
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Yes it would in fact shave better, or at least more consistently. And the reason is physics not magic. More mass would translate to less deflection of the edge while cutting.

Think of this, when you shave you can hear the hairs being cut. Some razors/blades are louder than others which actually means the are deflecting more when the encounter a hair and the sound is produced as it pops through the hair and returns to its normal place for the most part. This is also why the edges dulls over time.

If you can find an edge so perfectly sharp that it cuts silently then in that case mass no longer matters.

The reason hollow razors shave "better" than a wedge is geometry making up for the flex. The edge is finer and so has less resistance while cutting but also defects more, which is why many need refreshing a little more often. The fineness of the edge when fresh can make up for the lack of mass.

Brew said:
Let's try it this way. We all recall hearing of barbers' lessons involving learning to shave cream from a balloon. Does anyone think a heavier razor does this better (more efficiently, etc.) than a lighter razor? If so, please explain the mechanics that enables this.




I'll wait here.
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In this case nothing is being cut so it doesn't matter how heavy the blade is as long as the wielder can hold it steady.
 
The weight of the razor IMO is far less important than blade rigidity and the edge quality, i.e., sputter/coating quality.. Sure, a cutthroat razor has more mass to "horse" its way through hairs, but blade sharpness factors in as well as prep. DE blades are another matter as they compensate with hardened edge stainless blades, but what is actually perceived as sharpness is not, it's smoothness. The senses are playing tricks on a shaver as our ability to sense such minute degrees of sharpness is not as acute as many believe. Gillette discovered as such in the 1950's when they first introd coated blades (albeit carbon steel at that time).
 
uacowboy said:
Yes it would in fact shave better, or at least more consistently. And the reason is physics not magic. More mass would translate to less deflection of the edge while cutting.

Think of this, when you shave you can hear the hairs being cut. Some razors/blades are louder than others which actually means the are deflecting more when the encounter a hair and the sound is produced as it pops through the hair and returns to its normal place for the most part. This is also why the edges dulls over time.

If you can find an edge so perfectly sharp that it cuts silently then in that case mass no longer matters.

The reason hollow razors shave "better" than a wedge is geometry making up for the flex. The edge is finer and so has less resistance while cutting but also defects more, which is why many need refreshing a little more often. The fineness of the edge when fresh can make up for the lack of mass.


In this case nothing is being cut so it doesn't matter how heavy the blade is as long as the wielder can hold it steady.
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I’ll buy your explanation... it may or may not be 100% but it sounds pretty well reasoned. One area that both makes sense AND potentially goes astray is the idea that sound is the manifestation of resistance (deflection). Your explanation of hollow ground vs wedge sounds perfectly plausible (mostly because edge geometry really IS magic) but there is another, much simpler reason a hollow ground blade would be louder than a wedge and that is resonation. A hollow ground or thin blade will resonate more noticeably as a result of interaction with whiskers than a thick or wedge shaped blade. Likewise a heavier or more dense three piece razor (safety) might not shave as loudly as a lighter design or TTO.

All of that said, I have shaved with many different razors and blades and sometimes it sounds like I’m scraping burnt toast. I haven’t had any of my blades ‘ring’ or ‘sing’ but I understand some of the hollow ground straight razors are known to produce such a sound.
 
Bogeyman said:
The weight of the razor IMO is far less important than blade rigidity and the edge quality, i.e., sputter/coating quality.. Sure, a cutthroat razor has more mass to "horse" its way through hairs, but blade sharpness factors in as well as prep. DE blades are another matter as they compensate with hardened edge stainless blades, but what is actually perceived as sharpness is not, it's smoothness. The senses are playing tricks on a shaver as our ability to sense such minute degrees of sharpness is not as acute as many believe. Gillette discovered as such in the 1950's when they first introd coated blades (albeit carbon steel at that time).
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Excellent explanation! Or is it only excellent because I agree with it?
 
NurseDave said:
All I know is it sure seems like there are opinions being stated like facts and experiences being dismissed because there isn’t a way to scientifically prove it.

I’ll be going back to searching for gifs now.
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2pZmjZu.gif
 
Bogeyman said:
The weight of the razor IMO is far less important than blade rigidity and the edge quality, i.e., sputter/coating quality.. Sure, a cutthroat razor has more mass to "horse" its way through hairs, but blade sharpness factors in as well as prep. DE blades are another matter as they compensate with hardened edge stainless blades, but what is actually perceived as sharpness is not, it's smoothness. The senses are playing tricks on a shaver as our ability to sense such minute degrees of sharpness is not as acute as many believe. Gillette discovered as such in the 1950's when they first introd coated blades (albeit carbon steel at that time).
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If you are sensing one blade is smoother than another, it is probably because you are sensing it is sharper. More so if you have tough wiry whiskers. The sharper blade will cut with less resistance making it feel smoother. So you are feeling that one blade is sharper than another.
Also Gillette "discovered" it was a good idea to put dull blades in between sharp blades in their cartridge razors making for a miserable shave for many, which led us back to the single blade.
That, and to save money. 😜
 
DeepSea said:
@Bogeyman
I’m sure it’s technique and over shaving. I am a night shaver and have to be clean shaven for work. I really love how the Tech feels in my hand and how the blade is held.. I just end up destroying my neck.
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If you’d like a razor that holds the blade very rigid and won’t break the bank look for a vintage Gillette Short Comb. If you’d like to try one if you haven’t already I can send mine out for you to take a few spins with it.
 
DeepSea said:
@Bogeyman
I’m sure it’s technique and over shaving. I am a night shaver and have to be clean shaven for work. I really love how the Tech feels in my hand and how the blade is held.. I just end up destroying my neck.
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I am a night shaver as well and have a sensitive neck.
I use a Merker 34C, a personna blade (both USA and Russian made), then need a good soap with skin goodies. After that some witch hazel, AS, and then some balm.
I have also used Astra SP and Gillette Yellows with the same success.
And I have had to learn to use zero pressure on my lower neck or it gets really angry with me and displays a nice shade of pinkish red... And I don't chase the BBS even though I want to!

I also have a Gillette New short comb that I use if I have a couple of days growth. That is a wonderful razor.
 
Dragonsbeard said:
If you’d like a razor that holds the blade very rigid and won’t break the bank look for a vintage Gillette Short Comb. If you’d like to try one if you haven’t already I can send mine out for you to take a few spins with it.
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I have owned and used all the Gillette OC razors years ago and despise OC razors on the whole. I would make my grandma work double shifts in a Hong Kong brothel. before using another one.
 
Bogeyman said:
I have owned and used all the Gillette OC razors years ago and despise OC razors on the whole. I would make my grandma work double shifts in a Hong Kong brothel. before using another one.
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Mr Boogyman and what razors suit your fancy? I’m curious.
 
I'm with @Bogeyman on OC razors not being my cup of tea. Even the mild ones, like the Merkur 1904 (?) Just don't feel right to me.

If my grandmother's virtue were on the line, I'd probably reluctantly shave with one. But that could be among the few cavets. Lol.

On a side note, you'll be happy to know that comment nearly sent beer through my nose. Well done sir.
 
GearNoir said:
View attachment 14995

Totally disagree.

Efficiency can be properly used as a term within the subject of traditional shaving, whether a technique, a brush, a razor, a blade, or what have you. Something that enables one to achieve desirable results with less expended effort/resources.

A razor is an important piece of the operation of shaving. The razor can hold the blade in a more efficient manner or a less efficient manner, in regard to angle, exposure, blade gap, etc, as you mention. So efficiency can be a trait assigned to a razor.

I don’t follow lawn mowing with the same enthusiasm as I do traditional shaving...so I can’t comment if there is or isn’t a lingo. Efficiency could also be properly in that area also however.

www.merriam-webster.com

Definition of EFFICIENCY

the quality or degree of being efficient; efficient operation; effective operation as measured by a comparison of production with cost (as in energy, time, and money)… See the full definition
www.merriam-webster.com www.merriam-webster.com
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No need for multiple posts here gentlemen as GearNoir got it correct on post 3 ... game set match
 
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