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Shawn's forging shed
- Thread starter ShawnF
- Start date
And because we all like blades of some sort, here are some of the sharp objects that have come from my forge.
(In chronological order so you can see the progress over the last 7 months.)
Wood chisel for my father-in-law
Hunting knife for my stepson.
Kitchen knife and board for my step daughter.
A couple from my own kitchen.
One that I carry every day.
Shawn, your work is excellent.
In reply to some questions Tom had, and posted here for anyone else interested.
All of my knives get basically the same heat treatment. The only thing that may differ is the temper depending on the intended use for the knife. After the quench, 5160 is about 62hrc hardness. Most generally, my temper is two cycles at 350 degrees which leaves the blade between 59 and 60 hrc. Pretty much the same hardness you look for in any of the alloys like 01, D2, 1095, even the really fancy stuff like S30V.
If I know a knife is really meant to chop extremely hard and be subjected to any prying forces, I would temper at a slightly higher temperature. This gives a slightly softer blade, but more durable and less likely to breaking under extreme use. The one in the video has my normal tempering process at 350 though, and it holds up very well.
Obviously a kitchen knife has a finer edge and won't chop quite like that.
As to real world use, the larger one I made for myself last year about this time, has done the majority of my kitchen work for the last year. Occasionally I use the smaller one for vegetables, but the other gets the brunt of the work. I buy pork loins and slice them into my own pork chops, and same with my steaks. I buy large cuts and make my own. All of those are cut with this knife, as is the bigger portion of any vegetables or anything else I need to do.
I've just finally got it waiting to do a touch-up on it. It's not "dull" as in it won't cut easily, it just isn't at the point I know it can be any more. It's still sharper than a fresh from the factory Cutco knife in it's current state.
As to using carbon steel or VG10. 5160 is a medium/high carbon steel alloy with chromium added for strength. It has a 0.56%-0.64% carbon content, whereas something like 1095 has a 0.95% carbon content. !095 will have a little more wear resistance, but won't be quite as "tough".
So under the same normal kitchen use, you may need to sharpen a 5160 blade more, but it will survive the occasional bone strike or drop on the floor better than 1095.
Also being able to heat treat to 59-60hrc, puts it in the same class as most of your high end commercial grade blades for hardness. (Henckles and Wusthof are actually generally closer to a 55hrc.)
VG10 is a stainless steel alloy with a high carbon content. Very good blade steel, but due to import restrictions, rarely seen outside of Japanese manufacturers. Stainless steels (and many of the hybrid powdered metal alloys) require a much more precise and complex method of heat treating than I am able to do in my shed with a forge and toaster oven.
So the main reasons I use 5160 are that I have a lot of it on hand, it is a reliable tough steel, and it is easy and more forgiving in heat treating with a basic setup.
And here is the video of an edge retention test.
https://youtu.be/0j4FoQp_jEU
All of my knives get basically the same heat treatment. The only thing that may differ is the temper depending on the intended use for the knife. After the quench, 5160 is about 62hrc hardness. Most generally, my temper is two cycles at 350 degrees which leaves the blade between 59 and 60 hrc. Pretty much the same hardness you look for in any of the alloys like 01, D2, 1095, even the really fancy stuff like S30V.
If I know a knife is really meant to chop extremely hard and be subjected to any prying forces, I would temper at a slightly higher temperature. This gives a slightly softer blade, but more durable and less likely to breaking under extreme use. The one in the video has my normal tempering process at 350 though, and it holds up very well.
Obviously a kitchen knife has a finer edge and won't chop quite like that.
As to real world use, the larger one I made for myself last year about this time, has done the majority of my kitchen work for the last year. Occasionally I use the smaller one for vegetables, but the other gets the brunt of the work. I buy pork loins and slice them into my own pork chops, and same with my steaks. I buy large cuts and make my own. All of those are cut with this knife, as is the bigger portion of any vegetables or anything else I need to do.
I've just finally got it waiting to do a touch-up on it. It's not "dull" as in it won't cut easily, it just isn't at the point I know it can be any more. It's still sharper than a fresh from the factory Cutco knife in it's current state.
As to using carbon steel or VG10. 5160 is a medium/high carbon steel alloy with chromium added for strength. It has a 0.56%-0.64% carbon content, whereas something like 1095 has a 0.95% carbon content. !095 will have a little more wear resistance, but won't be quite as "tough".
So under the same normal kitchen use, you may need to sharpen a 5160 blade more, but it will survive the occasional bone strike or drop on the floor better than 1095.
Also being able to heat treat to 59-60hrc, puts it in the same class as most of your high end commercial grade blades for hardness. (Henckles and Wusthof are actually generally closer to a 55hrc.)
VG10 is a stainless steel alloy with a high carbon content. Very good blade steel, but due to import restrictions, rarely seen outside of Japanese manufacturers. Stainless steels (and many of the hybrid powdered metal alloys) require a much more precise and complex method of heat treating than I am able to do in my shed with a forge and toaster oven.
So the main reasons I use 5160 are that I have a lot of it on hand, it is a reliable tough steel, and it is easy and more forgiving in heat treating with a basic setup.
And here is the video of an edge retention test.
https://youtu.be/0j4FoQp_jEU
Shawn, thanks for explaining all of this so that even an idiot like me can understand it.
You can tell you love doing this.
You can tell you love doing this.
Great information Shawn!
My brother had Shawn make him a knife a few months ago and he is using now for hunting. Shawn was able to accommodate my brother's requests and make an extremely well built knife! I'll try to get my Brother to tell me what he really likes about it...but I just wanted to let you all know that it is a quality product that comes out of Shawn's forge!
My brother had Shawn make him a knife a few months ago and he is using now for hunting. Shawn was able to accommodate my brother's requests and make an extremely well built knife! I'll try to get my Brother to tell me what he really likes about it...but I just wanted to let you all know that it is a quality product that comes out of Shawn's forge!
I get frustrated with some of it actually in the process, but in the end I like what I can produce. Even though I see flaws and places for improvement, hearing the reactions and seeing the appreciation from others for something that I have made is a really good feeling.
But I'm still not going on the show....
Thanks Don. And YES! You need to get feedback from him. I know how they hold up for what I do, but everyone uses them for different things. Hearing pros AND CONS will help me to design and make better things as I move forwards.
But at least you know the knife will hold for any amount of veggie chopping you are going to do right?
Wow Shawn! Thanks for the explanation. Really appreciate it. Seeing that it is carbon steel, I know a patina or rust is common. How is it with the 5160? Like I said before, looking to get a new kitchen knife during the new year and it may be cool to get a custom work from you. ?
Dave in KY
Shave Newbie
He does awesome work. LOVE my knife he made
Thanks Dave. Always glad to hear when people are happy.
Tom, here is what mine looks like after a year of use.
The dark grey colors are actually more of a pretty blueish color that aren't translating in the photo very well.
This is all from normal use and no special care. Just hand wash immediately after use and dry well.
You can further protect them by using some mineral based oil between uses. Normal cutting board oil works fine. You can actually use any oil or preventative, but being a kitchen knife, you want something food grade. Vegetable oils left in the open may go rancid after time, so I normally recommend a mineral base oil.
A lot also depends on the foods you use it on and conditions it is stored in. My house is pretty dry and this is my main use knife, so I don't oil. Humid conditions, it may be a good idea to oil to prevent rust.
Onions and other acidic foods will accelerate the patina process. Patina is good and adds character, rust is not so good. Luckily it is fairly easy to prevent though, and easy enough to remove if it is caught early if something does happen to it.
Tom, here is what mine looks like after a year of use.
The dark grey colors are actually more of a pretty blueish color that aren't translating in the photo very well.
This is all from normal use and no special care. Just hand wash immediately after use and dry well.
You can further protect them by using some mineral based oil between uses. Normal cutting board oil works fine. You can actually use any oil or preventative, but being a kitchen knife, you want something food grade. Vegetable oils left in the open may go rancid after time, so I normally recommend a mineral base oil.
A lot also depends on the foods you use it on and conditions it is stored in. My house is pretty dry and this is my main use knife, so I don't oil. Humid conditions, it may be a good idea to oil to prevent rust.
Onions and other acidic foods will accelerate the patina process. Patina is good and adds character, rust is not so good. Luckily it is fairly easy to prevent though, and easy enough to remove if it is caught early if something does happen to it.
Don't let Shawn fool you, he's going on Forged In Fire.
I'm close enough that if he makes it through to the final round I'm going to drive there and watch them film him in his forging shack. He's close to being ready and I think he can do it.
Patinas can be forced on metals and there are a lot of chemicals out there that help with it. They'd look great on a Bowie knife but not so attractive on a kitchen knife. I love Shawn's naturally built up patina on this kitchen knife. It adds character and anyone who knows blades will know that's a real knife and not one of the stainless steel blades you buy in the store.
Patinas can be forced on metals and there are a lot of chemicals out there that help with it. They'd look great on a Bowie knife but not so attractive on a kitchen knife. I love Shawn's naturally built up patina on this kitchen knife. It adds character and anyone who knows blades will know that's a real knife and not one of the stainless steel blades you buy in the store.
Don't let Shawn fool you, he's going on Forged In Fire.I'm close enough that if he makes it through to the final round I'm going to drive there and watch them film him in his forging shack. He's close to being ready and I think he can do it.
Patinas can be forced on metals and there are a lot of chemicals out there that help with it. They'd look great on a Bowie knife but not so attractive on a kitchen knife. I love Shawn's naturally built up patina on this kitchen knife. It adds character and anyone who knows blades will know that's a real knife and not one of the stainless steel blades you buy in the store.
I Agree that on a kitchen knife it should be built up naturally. Was Mostly curious since he uses the same steel for most things how it worked out for him. Personally i love the look on a good hunting knife with the bonus of it helps protect it a bit.
Edit: I really enjoy Forged in Fire. Would be Awesome to see someone we know on there.