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BarberDave's Shaves & Such
- Thread starter BarberDave
- Start date
Was in a hurry this morning, had to pick up keys to the new shop
It is outstanding
shadowman12
Shave Member
Very good review. I have some other soaps from Ariana&Evans, and also a member of club, where you get a 20% discount and early access to his soaps. I have:
Asian Pear
Asian Plum
Révolution
The Equestrian ( The scent of this is reminiscent of the original 1978 release of RLPolo. The opening of this vintage classic is fresh & green consisting of a beautiful grassy note, thyme & basil. Spicy notes envelope your senses with cumin, coriander and cloves. The heart of this scent is very masculine with wood notes, oakmoss, patchouli, vetiver. This scent settles nicely with some tobacco & leather. )
Kaizen
I really like that the scents are stronger and last during the whole shave. The scent strength in comparable to Stirling in my opnion. On my list to acquire is Peach&Cognac, but it's not just a peach scent, but much more.
shadowman12
Shave Member
@BarberDave Why did you say there is no residual slickness? And you are comparing against PannaCrema, that's a $40 soap. In my opnion that's not a fair comparison. The retail price of Kaizen is half of what Pannacrema is, $20.
I have used Kaizen a couple of times and I found that there was a lot of residual slickness.
I have used Kaizen a couple of times and I found that there was a lot of residual slickness.
Dave, you mentioned how good the reducer was on the AS bottle..... but then you didn't show it or say why?? I'm curious about it now. The bottle and cap look the same as what OZ shaving uses, so I"m curious if it's the same reducer.
YMMV! I personally don't get any residual slickness from SV soaps, and Dave thinks SV is the bees knees when it comes to residual slickness. We are all different, we all have different water, different techniques, and each soap is going to lather differently for all of us. As he said, this was just his opinion.
Why is it not fair? Price is irrelevant when you are just doing a straight soap base vs soap base comparison. Do they need to be "Exactly" the same price before it's fair to compare them, or is it fair to compare a $20 soap vs a $25 soap? Probably..... so where is the price cutoff where it's no longer fair? And just because a soap is more expensive, doesn't mean that the soap base is made from more expensive or better ingredients. There are so many factors that go into pricing.
shadowman12
Shave Member
It's not fair because it's comparing apple and oranges. In my opnion if you compare something you need to compare in in the same price range. If the price is double you can use better ingredients to make a better base. because of more budget for better ingredients.
@BarberDave also stated that Peter said Kaizen was the best in the world. Peter never made that claim. Peter has said that he compared to among the best and some feel we are. Peter has never been so bold to make this claim. Also, residual slickness for Kaizen is off the charts. Peter has demonstrated his ability to shave 2 passes, just on residual slickness, so I’m not sure what @BarberDave has been thinking about
I don't understand why. They are both soap. That's comparing apples to apples. Is it fair to compare Williams that I bought for 99 cents to a shave soap that I spent $15 on? What if Williams is better? Price doesn't matter when you are only objectively comparing shave qualities of the soap. Price only comes into play when you are considering buying it. Sometimes we spend more on a soap because of the scent, even though it doesn't perform as well as cheaper soaps.
Also, price per tub is irrelevant because not all tubs have the same amount of soap in them. Tubs can vary from 3-8oz in different artisans. And not all soaps last as long. Softer soaps will get used up faster than hard soaps. If you spent $20 on one tub that lasts one month, and $20 on another tub that lasts two months, would it be fair to compare them???? What about comparing a $20 tub that lasts two months, with a $40 tub that lasts 4 months??? See why price is irrelevant now?
mrdoug
"TSC's Shave Sales Deal Finder"
I know this soap has been touted by quite a few as the best ... I haven't seen it from the owner, but from many a user on several boards. I'm glad it did so well on it's first run in Barber Dave's den. Fwiw, @BarberDave did mention several times things like 'for me' or 'in my den'... So, out of the gate id say he has put it out there that YMMV.
I'm surprised the scent was so we'll received. I've seen quite a few comments that the scent is quite synthetic.
As @Spider said, residual slickness can be a YMMV thing too. He didn't get much from SV. Perhaps environmental variables play a part? It's never been 115 degrees here in upstate NY (I don't think). We also have much more humidity than the desert. His tap water compared to mine or yours... Varying minerals, hardness, etc..
I can absolutely see how you feel it shouldn't be compared to a soap twice the price. However, if you keep that in mind in your review (or opinion, for those watching), it's all good. Let's say after all is said and done he says it's fairly close to SV and Ethos for him... The takeaway one could get is: It's pretty close, at HALF the cost... A real deal!!
EDIT: @Spider makes an excellent point above. You need to consider the real price, first. Maybe it is half the cost, based on real world use... Maybe it's 4, 8, 100 times as much (doubt it). Once you know the details, then you can possibly say 'wow it's so good for so cheap'. Of course, if the 40$ soap lasts twice as long, someone is essentially selling you an 8 ounce variable of your current soap. Do we need that longevity of one single scent with dens of 20, 40, 150 soaps (looking at you Chad)? So that's another thing to consider. This is all, of course, merely speculation... I don't know how long any of these soaps last. My soaps are like the Tootsie pops... Where's the bottom of the tub?... "The world may never know." [emoji16]
Just my 2¢.
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Well Polarization what fun. I will address each comment as read.
If you have looked at any of my reviews I state very clearly that PRICE plays no part in my evaluations, as the dollar amount does not affect how it smells or performs. The only Caviat is when placed in glass jars many of the EO / FO will take on a different makeup.
First off he has stated it, if you look around, and it is insinuated on the Website. Which is ok in my book, if the claims can be substaniated in my mind. But as been clearly stated by everyone, all the time YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY. @Spider and I often disagree on soaps, but as he stated we are living in entirely different environments. That being said we have both been Traditonal shavers for a long, long time, and have tried, purchased, and have in inventory enough soaps to, in my mind, make good honest non-bias evaluations. Are our outcomes the same all the time?, NO, do we agree often? YES, do we disagree often? YES. However there are VERY few I trust more that him when I look to buy or try a soap, as I trust his word. For Instance He likes samples, I hate them, but we appreciate what each other brings to the conversation and perspective. As to
price again... I have a soap that is over $100.00 that performs worse that a soap I have for 10.00, so again price, packaging DOES NOT matter in certain evaluations. I care about the Engine not whether in has a seat warmer.
THIS
"Pennzoil" is 8.99 a quart. "Castrol GT" is 12.99 a quart do they perform the same? maybe , maybe not or does "Jacks Budget Oil" at 1.99 a quart have most of the same ingredients and work close to the same Maybe. Do I buy it, maybe, or do I look at performance data and make the decision? By the way I use Royal Purple in all my vehicles ( 21.99 a quart, why because it performs not because it is a high priced oil. 99% of price is marketing, not performance in all aspects. I know what perfume oil costs, EO ingredients, and all items that go into soap. I know how much it actually costs for a tub or soap as I have been involved from making to distributions and retail. Hence why cost will never be a part of my evaluation.
Thanks for the comments and to @mrdoug , @Spider thank you for commenting on my intentions, and to @shadowman12 I hope this clarifies everything for you
1st and foremost, Residual slickness means simply to me that a soap, post pass leaves the face feeling as if it has oil on it, that the water has a viscosity to it, when I was a firefighter we had a substance that we called "wet water" it had a huge amount of surfactant in it. Also everything I stated was my opinion only not Law, and also in comparison to the soaps I have and claims made but A&E and, if you do your research many avid fans across all forums, discussion groups, etc. Not to mention my water's chemical make up here in my location all make variables present. I am on Well Water, and it is very hard, so you may have soft water that presents more post shave slickness. When I evaluate this I also base it on how easy it rinses to a hard water squeak persay on the face. I stand by my eval.
If you have looked at any of my reviews I state very clearly that PRICE plays no part in my evaluations, as the dollar amount does not affect how it smells or performs. The only Caviat is when placed in glass jars many of the EO / FO will take on a different makeup.
First off he has stated it, if you look around, and it is insinuated on the Website. Which is ok in my book, if the claims can be substaniated in my mind. But as been clearly stated by everyone, all the time YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY. @Spider and I often disagree on soaps, but as he stated we are living in entirely different environments. That being said we have both been Traditonal shavers for a long, long time, and have tried, purchased, and have in inventory enough soaps to, in my mind, make good honest non-bias evaluations. Are our outcomes the same all the time?, NO, do we agree often? YES, do we disagree often? YES. However there are VERY few I trust more that him when I look to buy or try a soap, as I trust his word. For Instance He likes samples, I hate them, but we appreciate what each other brings to the conversation and perspective. As to
price again... I have a soap that is over $100.00 that performs worse that a soap I have for 10.00, so again price, packaging DOES NOT matter in certain evaluations. I care about the Engine not whether in has a seat warmer.
THIS
I know that many use Cost per ounce, longevity, packaging and more as a gauge in comparison. I am fortunate that price is not a major factor. MY analogy is this
"Pennzoil" is 8.99 a quart. "Castrol GT" is 12.99 a quart do they perform the same? maybe , maybe not or does "Jacks Budget Oil" at 1.99 a quart have most of the same ingredients and work close to the same Maybe. Do I buy it, maybe, or do I look at performance data and make the decision? By the way I use Royal Purple in all my vehicles ( 21.99 a quart, why because it performs not because it is a high priced oil. 99% of price is marketing, not performance in all aspects. I know what perfume oil costs, EO ingredients, and all items that go into soap. I know how much it actually costs for a tub or soap as I have been involved from making to distributions and retail. Hence why cost will never be a part of my evaluation.
Thanks for the comments and to @mrdoug , @Spider thank you for commenting on my intentions, and to @shadowman12 I hope this clarifies everything for you
Also it should be noted that he did "indicate that this is from Peter
"When I created my first shaving soap, my goal was for our base to be considered among the top soaps in the industry. I believe we accomplished this. "
" Kaizen hit all the goals I set forth and more. "
not to mention the countless shavers who have indeed made the claim of the best while trashing other makers. A thing I will NEVER DO
and @shadowman12 no need to get defensive, as stated these are BOLD claims so indeed it begged for a shootout, and the bottom line, if Kaizen wins then for you, based on price, then what a great value as @mrdoug stated this is for the masses.
"When I created my first shaving soap, my goal was for our base to be considered among the top soaps in the industry. I believe we accomplished this. "
" Kaizen hit all the goals I set forth and more. "
not to mention the countless shavers who have indeed made the claim of the best while trashing other makers. A thing I will NEVER DO
and @shadowman12 no need to get defensive, as stated these are BOLD claims so indeed it begged for a shootout, and the bottom line, if Kaizen wins then for you, based on price, then what a great value as @mrdoug stated this is for the masses.
shadowman12
Shave Member
Yes that clarifies it, but I stil disagree with you hahaha, but that's ok. Price is a huge factor for me because it also sets an expectation what to expect from a soap. From a $40 soap I expect better performance in scent&base than a $20 soap.
It was not my intention to get defensive, but I really disagreed how this review was done. You can't say that a soap maker made a statement which he didn't made. I have seen a lot of review from you, in which I totally agreed, but this one, no, sorry. But that's ok, that gives room to started a good discussion.
You would be surprised that based on ingredients and packaging most soaps both Elite and "bottom shelf" can be ,made for under $10 based on ounces produced and sometimes Less, and it is OK to disagree that is the beauty of this hobby, we can all learn from each other and our experiences. Traditional Shavers are a marketers dream, myself included, and I know the costs, LOL
And in many cases you'd be disappointed with that expectation.
shadowman12
Shave Member
Not in the case of A&E in my opinion. I get a 20% discount so I pay $15, and they usually perform like a $30 soap in my opinion.
But YMMV
Dave in KY
Shave Newbie
My comment was not about any specific soap..... none of my comments were. I have over 300 tubs/pucks of soap in my den. I'm speaking in general terms in regards to my experiences across the entire spectrum of soaps.