Jon’s musing about running and things about running while running and after running and probably before running too

[global_dev]

so today was a pretty windy and cold day before noon, and at the outset i felt like i should have worn full fingered gloves, i didn't. i regretted for the first half hour but the weather got nicer around mile 2 and i didn't feel the cold on my fingertips. i really dislike some of my joggers/sweat pants when its windy or they start to feel heavy and very noticeable, but i enjoyed the long easy run and just kind of went at the route trying to maintain nice RPE (rate of perceived exertion). i had just put on some spareribs on a smoker and totally forgot about them until i got back to my driveway. temp more or less stayed within range of what was good until they were done much later on.

noticed that the leaves on the trails portion today were 99% gone, which is nice, don't have to worry about whats underneath or slipping, contrasted to last week or so when it was covered completely, yesterdays trails which were 100% covered, i'm guessing its foot traffic and exposure. took me about 75 mins or so, easy pace.

i've been kind of veering off my intro to power plan and to get back on it i went on a 45 min easy power recovery with my 12yo to make sure she keeps her fitness level up and improving. rather than taking a vacation from training which sadly we can't abide. lol. how funny/sad is that, but i wish I had the training my kids have. coulda, woulda, but whats done is done. we went 4.5 miles.

definitely feel like i'm kind of straddling slow and fast paces and can feel it in the form,the difference on the active knee push of slow (quad) and triple extension (hips/knees/ankles) that leads to elastic knee push response on the longer runs vs it just happening on the HIIT or temp runs. i hope i am doing it right, i probably need to get some feedback.

couple times today i saw some guys in front of me and they just continue to pull away slightly, it's always with 1 mile left in my runs... i have no idea if they are doing 1 mile or 5, but it stings... but i continue to "trudge" along at my pace, it's easy to get caught up in trying to speed up when you see walkers, runners, cars, just seems like an odd pride thing that's hard to let go of.

been doing a lot of ankle and toes mobility exercise.. probably should add in some upper body and core workouts too maybe in 2022.

tomorrow is the winter solstice, i'm going to try a double session with a run starting before sun up (0722) and a second starting just before sundown (1651).

i don't know if i'll make many or any of my early 2021 goals, they may have been overly ambitious before i realized how progression is slow..

my target goals right now
10K at 9min miles at 135HR
5k in 21mins
2miles in 12mins
1mile in 5mins

my target date is june 2021.

clearly didn't make it by june 2021

according to my calculations predictor based on my performance, I am very close to some of these (perhaps i need to hit a flat track though):

10K at 9min miles at 135HR - definitely not at 135, maybe 150, but i think i'm very close to 55 mins on my regular runs. i am pretty sure I could beat this with some effort and tactic planning.
5k in 21mins - i just got 24mins and change last month, i don't know that i could chip away at another min per mile that soon over that distance. maybe...
2miles in 12mins - not even close - i think maybe 15-17 mins
1mile in 5mins - i'm thinking i might be able to hit a 7 min mile, i may try this soonest

these goals were more or less 6 months in from starting my journey... expectations kind of off given my lack of knowledge/experience. I watched the Spike Lee version of Oldboy yesterday, hadn't seen the original in probably over a decade, but the moment when joseph starts to train up is pretty cool and oddly made me feel bad that I've been lax to get in better shape with the resources i have around me.

 

[global_dev]

last couple runs been really interesting


3 days took my daughter on an evening run that started at 9PM in the dark, she was really nervous to go out that late; i mean who starts their exercise after dessert. we did a 5K in about half an hour and she absolutely loved it. came back bragging to her mom and sister about how cool it is to be out there. never been out with a partner before at that darkness, blinded her a couple of times with my headlamp.

yesterday she and I went on a 15K hybrid pavement/single track run that was lots of fun, every run with her, i try to stretch what she does in terms of where and how so she was shocked to go up some streets and hills that are not typical of where i take her. i think she thought she was going on another 5K, but once we decided to hit the trails it was gonna be a longer run.

today i am on run 11 of 14 of power training intro. 20 mins warmup run ~10mins/mile pace into a 5 min hard power to 10 mins recovery pace. it is unusually warm out here in VA. 70F whereas the last few days were in the 30s-50s. 70 is warm, so hard to dress for these winter runs.

timed the 5 min hard power start almost perfectly on the boardwalk to a good starting point that would give me mostly convenient space to roll out. its about .75 mile one way with some external paths on one end that can add enough distance if i need, but .75m seemed perfect for 5 mins of hard work. it was a perfect semi-loop for this.

i turned up the pace a couple seconds before the countdown started and felt really good going into minute 1, really nice.. minute 2 felt nice, I just felt like i was moving pretty quickly and the shoes felt really really nice.. .. at min3 i had nothing left in the tank. i had to turn it way way back. apparently way too fast for maintaining 5 minutes for my current condition. looking at the data after, ironically it was a 06:13 min/mi Pace avg ( Max 05:28 | Min 07:50) on very lightly rolling hills which is just under around my shorter run goal (1mile - 5mins, 2m - 6 min/mile, 5K - 7mins/mile) tempos are. perhaps a quick break after the first 20 mins would have given me some rest, but no way i think i could have hold that pace for a 1 mile, let alone 2 or 3 right now. maybe not having done a long trail run yesterday and HM recently would make it an attempt. and while it felt good to stretch the legs for those 3 mins, it was a bit of a pride hit. i need a better pacer, perhaps a pace where i could maintain for 8-9mins in the first 2.5mins, but definitely not blowing it out in the first 2.5mins.

what i hadn't really planned on was the final recovery 10 mins was all uphill. i had made the decision that i would jog that slowly back up hill since i didn't want to add any more volume whether it was flat or uphill, kind of last minute decision. i wanted the 35 mins of running to just be over and be closer to home. it was worth it, i sometimes overdue the volume a tad and while it isn't causing injury, it's just a lot of cardio and muscle stress.

lots of people out today celebrating the holiday by going for a walk on the boardwalk. most were out of my way.

 

[global_dev]

gonna be along post. end of a training plan and close to the end of the year.

2 easy runs yesterday (one with my kid for 5K and then a 2miler later on, it was a ridiculously warm day). Today was an important day in the power intro 14 day training plan which culminates in a 5K time trial. TBH, I wasn't "rested" at all and i've been reading that workouts to "today" can be influenced (positively or negatively) by "yesterdays" fatigue and I was okay with that concept as i realize i am pushing the envelope a bit for myself. i was excited to see what the power workout had in store for me. "5 mins easy, 3 minutes hard, 2 easy, 5K time trial, and 10 min recovery" had to decide what route i should take and eventually realized my normal 5mile route would do. timing and distance put the time trial at basically most of the most uphill portions of the route. challenge accepted.

and of course, it's 35-40F outside this AM. grabbed my kid and off we went.. it was cold and a bit windy for the first 5 min easy portion,which is slightly long uphill, and then a huge downhill, which when running on power means it's time to speed up, and boom that put us into the the first hard portion that was basically uphill ( 0.4 of a mile 7:38 pace) and into a flat for a 2 minute recovery.. that 2 mins goes really really fast and also means that the 5K time trial is ON. 3.1 miles and 311 of total elevation gain, that's pretty hilly from what i gather.

Distance	3.099 miles		Total Ascent/Descent	311 feet / 249 feet
Lowest Point	59 feet (at 1.17 miles)		Highest Point	173 feet (at 1.85 miles)
Uphill	1.73 miles (55.9%)		Downhill	1.23 miles (39.7%)
Flat	0.11 miles (3.6%)		Height Gain	114 feet
Steepest Uphill	+11.1% (at 3.02 miles)		Steepest Downhill	-7.8% (at 1.06 miles)
Longest Uphill	0.45 miles (at 0.50 miles)		Longest Downhill	0.45 miles (at 1.85 miles)
Ascent Rate	101 ft/mile		Descent Rate	80 ft/mile

It was rough trying to make sure i didn't drop below my consistent power goal, or go to far over. and i had to make sure I didn't leave my kid too far behind... but we did it. 5K in 27 mins and the whole 5 miles we did in 47 mins. this was a clearly different 5K than the PR i did in November that was essentially flat and well enough rested iirc. pretty psyched to see a 8:45 avg pace on the time trial with all these hills. After some grade adjustment analysis, this would have put me around 24.5- 26 mins for the 5K if it was totally flat, given all the 10 mins prior and all the volume and fatigue over the past couple of days/weeks, I'm kind of happy.

New PR! 5K in 25:30!

Also stumbled upon a new interesting measurement called DFA-alpha1 to identify my aerobic threshold.

"Your aerobic threshold is the intensity where your physiology starts to show the first significant signs of a disruption of metabolic homeostasis. This occurs at a relative low intensity and is typically identified in the lab by measuring blood lactate concentration or by measuring breathing data via VO2 testing. It also can be estimated by relying on percentages of other physiological or output metrics like FTP or Max HR. Finally, a low-tech estimator is the so-called “talk test.”

Detrended Fluctuation Analysis is a mathematical method for determining the statistical self-affinity of a signal, in the case of DFA a1, the heart rate signal. Much like HRV for recovery and readiness monitoring, DFA a1 is a metric derived from the heart rate signal by examining the variations in between individual beats. But unlike HRV analysis, it is done during activity. Initial research has identified a value (0.75) which appears to correlate well with the lactate threshold (LT1) and the ventilatory threshold (VT1) as indicators of your aerobic threshold (AeT)." (not to be confused with the anaerobic threshold or lactate threshold!) and values around 0.5 at high intensity.

I was able to extract my DFA a1 data for the entire run today, everything below 0.75 (the shaded region) is considered to be not low-intensity. that high portion about 8 mins in is the 2 min recovery portion. just past the 35 min region was halfway up a hill when the 5K ended (see the very end of the elevation picture above) and we walked the rest of the hill and then jogged the rest of the way home downhill and clearly didn't do it at low-intensity.

​

according to this sample, my AeT for the other parameters using DFA a1 - HR 139 BPM, PACE 11:29 mins/mile, and Power 226W. That seems about right.. it's been hard to hit (keep at or below) any of those conditions in my neighborhood unless i walk... and that's the elusive zone2 that I was striving to get to for maximum aerobic function (MAF). perhaps if i kept to flat roads, it might be more viable, and i was really early in the morning, no caffeine, slept longer, no stress, less body weight, and what else can i add to that list.

 

[global_dev]

I was feeling pretty good this morning, my data says my cardio system “not recovered”. so i took it slow today and make it an easy long run. Took my daughter out with me. 55°F and overcast. Went out around noon not sure where i was gonna go, but hills were not appealing to me after yesterday’s time trial.

Tried to actually keep under 135bpm so looked for mostly flat routes and ended up finding some really good places along the route, a cool park and a wildlife sanctuary. Felt so good at a slower pacer (around 12mins/mile) it ended being just under 20 miles. 4 hours goes fast when the scenery and segments change enough during the route.

The DFA a1 above pretty much confirms it was a low intensity effort which was awesome. Beautiful weather to run, saw a bald eagle perched about 25-40 ft in a tree.

HR remained z2 under 135 for almost the first 2 Hrs and then drifted up to 140-145 for almost the remainder. Not bad at all. Supposedly usage of mostly fat for energy than carbs.

Added a quick 1-2 strides at the end before the uphill home, and was shocked to be able to hit some high intensity speed for 30 seconds before i was just unable to keep it up and finished the workout.

Did a bit of stretching and foam rolling and hoping to feel good tomorrow morning and maybe take a rest day.

 

[global_dev]

Today was too nice to let alone so i went out for a light and easy 5k. Felt really good, nothing out of sorts from yesterday.

Was thinking how much harder that distance will be at a faster clip and when i want to try it out. I think i need a strategy of hydration and fuel. Time to do some research on new training plans for the new year.

 

[global_dev]

2021 in the bag. great year for my start into the sport/lifestyle.. have to say, it's really hard to remember what i am thinking about during the runs, sometimes i try to really will myself to remember and just can't. doesn't matter how important or where it fits into my life, it's really difficult, without some sort of hint about where i was or what i was thinking about, it's pretty much gone, like walking through a doorway and not remembering what you were doing... sometimes it's a nice blank/in the zone feeling, sometimes i can't remember the interesting podcast that i listened to or the new song that played that i wanted to add to a specific playlist..

the end of 2021 also brings up lots of questions for me, especially whats going to be my running goals for 2022. gonna take some real thought.

2021 was a bit of initial discovery for me in almost every aspect of the sport & lifestyle.. i think 2020s foray was really interesting kind of walk/run Couch to 5K-ish, one major discovery (like how much easier it is to run farther when you run slower, lol ) it'll be interesting to see where i can find similar moments that i made in 2021... otherwise at a minimum, obviously need to continue to find enjoyment, stay injury-free, and keep up some level of mileage and speed.

i don't want to set my expectations to low or too high. My 2021 goals were very interesting, i've looked back a them recently, and to tell you the truth, at the time i didn't know if they were realistic or not when i set them, i kind of thought they might be, not sure if i was wrong or not still... gonna go with "no", if i didn't hit them, but i also wouldn't say i was really trying to accomplish them by any means necessary, i was hoping to continue to make forward progress and i thought those goals would come. whats really odd, is that i keep seeing folks with little experience running marathon with ~4 months training, supposedly starting with little to no experience , but i can never hear the thing that makes me so "oh, that makes sense now that you've said the unsaid part!" - comparison is the thief of joy, just have to keep remembering that, keep things in perspective.

feel like I've seen glimpses into some runner groups online that look like they have enjoyable meetups at parkruns, weekly or monthly events, races, etc.. going out for a beer or food (this is what we did pre-pandemic with the extended soccer "fam" for my kids, but tbh a lot of what i've seen seems mostly like extreme opposites, like folks who run a couple of miles a day for "maintenance" or folks who train all out for their particular event. I'm not really sure what external social aspect I desire out of running as a lifestyle, i feel like i wold enjoy something, but not sure i see "my" people in it just yet.

Interesting to see 2021 rolled up into these 3 below perspectives, without the emotion in details of the last 225 posts: highlights, lowlights, personal records (PRs), trudges, walks, speed sessions, falls on the trails, the conversations i had my kids and wife and the family races...

I'm a bit shocked about my experience, but also realize i have That personality, a bit more/extra/special... a description probably in ways that my family can use postiviely one day and than as a diagnosis the next, but i think i keep balance.. but ~1500 miles is amazing to me, 18 miles of vert gained, wow, i can see my consistence ebb and flow through the year, summer is rough time to exercise here in VA, but summer was usually an off time for exercise, thinking back to youth sports, that was the off season of the year.




from vast majority of my efforts at recovery to about half, not sure this provides great insight for getting my goals, but i think it shows overall too much of the yellow area towards the end of the year, but I also probably need to redo some threshold testing.. lots of folks say training by HR isn't the way to train, but i think based on my current fitness levels and understanding of how i feel (Relative Percevied Effort or RPE), it's a nice way to correlate the paradigms and data for injury prevention and progress.




now this PR progress i a little less helpful than the rest, but people probably want this to be the most interesting. It's not helpful to me because I'm not really racing or going all out for these on a regular basis, they are just getting noted as I hit distances the first couple of times now.. not sure if that makes sense.. i "raced" only 1 5K back in Nov, and I'm not even sure i prepared correctly to run it well or at all. it is was it was... the rest are kind of a balance of random efforts with a specific goals but not a race. probably need to look at that and what makes sense in terms of a training plan. plus the data doesn't always correlate well in these apps. if i am off distance by a couple 100 meters and run it faster (for example 4 miles, it will not register as a 5K (3.1miles) PR event. I can look at is best segments from a training but not as a "race" result PR. i think it's overestimating my ability to hold pace for that long, but then again, i;m not taking into account the hills.. coincidentally the power based models show me the grade adjusted paces i need to hit on hills, because they are trying to keep my power goals consistent throughout the session.

​

one last thing before i end my current thoughts..

i've enjoyed the tech i've tried, i think it's been worth it for tracking and insight; without some action based on the data it's obviously not as effective; however no one thing seems to be close to doing it all, or even close by integrating lots of 3rd party stuff, even after all the technological advancements over the last 2 decades. not the gear (watch, sensors like HR, pace, etc) , not the analysis and tracking tools.. it's kind of a pain.. the sport specific advancements stuff is great, but the ecosystems and pro/cons are ridiculous.. i think its one of things where you learn what you like after you try it out and no amount of research is gonna help. I really like what i bought stuff, but for every company there are a dozen plus items at way different price points, and so many limitations regardless of the things they feature. i started out with one pretty good watch and as i was running around my hilly neighborhood, i realized i was really interested in at least 3-7 more functions that weren't available on the watch and their ecosystem i initially bought. I settled for 3 additional functions with a new watch. and after a while, i wondered why they wouldn't incorporate some more stuff easily, in fact, the more i learned the saltier i became about the issue, not crazy salty, but enough to consider different companies offerings pretty easily next time.

 

[global_dev]

It snowed here for the first time in a while, its been in the 60s-70s lately. about a foot of powder and i thought i could break out my winter gear AND my running snowshoes that i got when i was in my early 20s and lived near the Adirondacks. It was a bit too deep today for a longer run without killing my legs… I jogged about a half mile away and looped back home to start shoveling the driveway. That was enough of a workout for a couple hours. As the sun came around the shovel loads got plenty heavy, lift with the legs, stabilize with whatever gets it done and isn’t already tired.

 

[dangerousdon]

What the Hell Man! I open this thread and find all this sciencey stuff in here. I thought this was a thread about running?!!!

In all seriousness...I have been doing a little research...and by research I mean I herd it on a podcast or two...about zone two training and how it can actually rebuild mitochondrial health from years of crappy eating and low exercise and stuff. I hate running with a passion...but I might see what I can do to increase my cardio intensity when I exercise.

 

[global_dev]

Been back on track, no pun intended, for last 2 weeks and the weather is all over the place. For me, ive been following a 5k HR training plan reasonably well and enjoying getting back into the groove. I feel like I’ve got a great local area to train.. not the most awesome, but still pretty cool.

Here is a pic of the boardwalk over my neighborhood that just got built right before the pandemic. Nobody was on it today. Just under a mile each way. Today was interval day 4x3mins of high intensity. Each interval had me at just around 800meters.

In this pic i got the attention of a great blue heron near a section towards the middle of the pic as i ran by and i could hear the crazy squawking. Hard to get out the phone and take some pics, but today it was needed.



Check the video i took while trying to complete the session. Saw about 5 great blues on the run.

 

[global_dev]

Ha, you can totally see where i stopped to take that video - 3rd interval HR just dips straight down.

 

[dangerousdon]

Sweet boardwalk! Looks like a nice place to get a little exercise and sun (when it's out). Nice capture of the wildlife on the vid!

 

[global_dev]

I hate running with a passion...

Lol, never saw this post. Pre-pandemic i would have said the same Exact thing.

Not sure what happened to immensely enjoy it now, perhaps it was the slowing down to a 12min/mile+ and some podcasts/tunes in the headphones with some decent weather and no kids in sight for an hour (or two).

The trailrunning significantly increased the enjoyability of running. Like a hundredfold.

Thats why that boardwalk is crucial to me, i have to go through some small bit of trail to get to it and then it winds and undulates and breaks up the pavement pounding for the majority of the run.

The neighborhood 10k is brutal with its hills, it’s never just flat and boring. Its basically burn up that quad, get some recovery and speed downhill and get ready for the next quad thrashing. Fun times. The 5k has its moments too. So does the 2miler. Just burning quads every time. Learning to activate the glutes really helps.

Basically not flat anywhere in these virginia hills, near me. not sure if thats a pro or a con.

 

[dangerousdon]

Lol, never saw this post. Pre-pandemic i would have said the same Exact thing.

Not sure what happened to immensely enjoy it now, perhaps it was the slowing down to a 12min/mile+ and some podcasts/tunes in the headphones with some decent weather and no kids in sight for an hour (or two).

The trailrunning significantly increased the enjoyability of running. Like a hundredfold.

Thats why that boardwalk is crucial to me, i have to go through some small bit of trail to get to it and then it winds and undulates and breaks up the pavement pounding for the majority of the run.

The neighborhood 10k is brutal with its hills, it’s never just flat and boring. Its basically burn up that quad, get some recovery and speed downhill and get ready for the next quad thrashing. Fun times. The 5k has its moments too. So does the 2miler. Just burning quads every time. Learning to activate the glutes really helps.

Basically not flat anywhere in these virginia hills, near me. not sure if thats a pro or a con.

I admire your passion for the sport. I have done my share of running in my life. I was in the Marine Corps and running is a culture in that service. I used to do our PT Test (three mile run) in 21 minutes. I was one of the slowest guys in my unit. I look back now and think that's crazy! I would love to be able to run three miles in 21 minutes now. But the fact of the matter is that I am not built for it. I am 6'3" and even when I was skinny, I had a very large frame. I also have only a 32 inch inseam. So I have a very large abdominal area and short legs. To compound it all I have larger thighs than usual and just have to look at stairs to have well defined calves. So running...for me...is hard. It's harder for me than the average guy. What I am good at is if you throw 100 pounds on my back and say go up that hill. Yeah, that's my jam.

Not to mention anytime I run now...my left knee swells up. Doc says I have IT Band Syndrome. She says to stretch more. Guess what I hate doing almost as much as running...yeah...I hate stretching. But I guess I need to do something about that soon. I have been thinking about going to a physical therapist to help get me stretched out. Getting old really sucks!

 

[global_dev]

I’m not really built for optimal endurance distance running either.

And it’s by no means my favorite, just the most accessible right now. I’d rather be snowboarding or mountain biking. But walking and hiking ain’t no joke. Probably better for the body.

You have a great opportunity to hop on a bike.

 

[global_dev]

Saturday was a crazy rainy/windy day and i was excited to get my bad weather gear out. nice 4 miles or so into and out of the trails. the nike shield models work great, keeps water out and the grip of the tread is stellar on wet and light mud. which brings me to today's 10K in the trails.

you overlook things when you are focused and unfocused, like trying to turn though mud isn't gonna work. you gotta go straight through or over and then react to the turn after footing is stable. leaves are not the slippery issue they were back months ago. they are more or less not a problem, it's the mud puddles and ice which brings me to how different the ground can be. the first 1/3 was so muddy and slippery, the 2nd third was just covered with leaves, and the 3rd area was completely frozen ground and ice layers. the shoes i wore were awesome on the the first 2/3s and kind of rough on the last third. not meant for hard ground at all. its even in the name Sense 8 SG (Soft Ground).

below is missing the first mile, something happened and it shows as a separate run with some odd distance info, so i kept it separate as a "warmup" which it kind of was. this shaded hill below was a killer, i remember my daughter in the past asking me to slow down and walk a couple times, in previous trail runs, but i had never looked into the elevation. it's a rough 3/4s of mile. it was sunny but cold (32F), I was past mile 3 which has some crazy trail stairs, i have to walk or risk injury, i was covered in wet mud having already stepped into a mud hole (where did that come from?) during the "warmup" (that wasn't the data issue), and i had just heard the beep to start the next higher 15 min zone 4 HR phase of this tempo run. YAY! you can see my pace all over the place as I really tried to keep going and finally gave in at the end. i wasn't done, but i also needed to conserve some energy to get home before my wife came home and found me out having "fun". Ironically, I didn't beat her home and she didn't care what i was doing anymore. lol. so not bad session of 10K in 80mins in the forest.

​

 

[global_dev]

So i changed up my HR zones to karvonen based to see how it feels this week and i’ve done a few sessions and it seems to line up pretty well, but the point is to build base so i am hoping it’s relatively close while i find some time to do a bit of testing later on.

Did my first intervals on a track today and it’s definitely not as fun as the trails or even the roads. Not even close. But the 3x3min intervals were rough. Approximately a 7min/mile pace for 3 mins which gets me a bit under an 800 length for each go.

 

[Joshua223]

Good grief, you are running 5k in what it would take me to run 1. That is great you are doing so well. Brooks were recommended to me by a runner and I'm on 4th? pair now.

 

[global_dev]

Good grief, you are running 5k in what it would take me to run 1. That is great you are doing so well. Brooks were recommended to me by a runner and I'm on 4th? pair now.

My initial months of running were pretty slow and not a long distance.

Brooks are a solid choice. everyone suggests ghosts or glycerin from brooks, but i havent tried them yet.

 

[Joshua223]

I wear the Brooks Beast

 

[global_dev]

nice, if you like the way they feel and support, then its a great shoe.