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Is Die Hard a Christmas Movie- THE CADRE DECIDES
- Thread starter BarberDave
- Start date
dkeester
"TSC's Master of Bourbon"
I am not saying "the Internet says so". I am also presenting facts. Just because it is in the form of an article on the Internet does not discount its factual value. You saying "because it is on the Internet it doesn't count" is equally, if not more, lazy from a debate standpoint. You aren't arguing against the facts presented, you are simply attempting to discredit the facts.
Watching Die Hard is a Christmas tradition in my house. Watching Lethal Wepon 1 is a Christmas tradition in my house. That makes them Christmas movies. I have adopted them as part of my tradition.
Also, they are as much Christmas movies as "White Christmas" is. "White Christmas" is a movie set at Christmas time, featuring Christmas music. The story content of "White Christmas" has nothing at all to do with Christmas. The same story could have easily taken place around St. Valentine's Day, Thanksgiving, or Pearl Harbor Day.
I've heard all of these points before.......it doesn't sway me. Its an action movie. Set during an office party. That happens to be at christmas.
Traditions are great...and I would never tell anyone that their holiday traditions are not valid....you could have a hot dog cookout on christmas day and I'd think that was cool....very cold but cool. Traditions do not make a movie that has zero to do with christmas...a christmas movie.
Traditions are great...and I would never tell anyone that their holiday traditions are not valid....you could have a hot dog cookout on christmas day and I'd think that was cool....very cold but cool. Traditions do not make a movie that has zero to do with christmas...a christmas movie.
dkeester
"TSC's Master of Bourbon"
Here is a list of Christmas songs that have nothing to do with Christmas:
- "Let it Snow, Let it Snow, Let it Snow"
- "Baby, Its Cold Outside"
- "Winter Wonderland"
- "Frosty the Snowman"
- "You're a Mean one, Mr. Grinch"
- "My Favorite Things"
dkeester
"TSC's Master of Bourbon"
Yes. They do.
See the list of songs above. They have nothing to do with Christmas. They have become Christmas songs through tradition.
BTW....people,
I'm not saying my opinion (and lets all agree that all that I've been typing this entire time is only my opinion) is not the only valid one. If you feel differntly....that's great. Bring me a compelling argument and I'll examine it against mine and we can debate....and that's all this really...just a friendly debate. If you're getting angry about this....you've misunderstood my intentions....and I'm sorry. Just like to debate this particular subject.
I'm not saying my opinion (and lets all agree that all that I've been typing this entire time is only my opinion) is not the only valid one. If you feel differntly....that's great. Bring me a compelling argument and I'll examine it against mine and we can debate....and that's all this really...just a friendly debate. If you're getting angry about this....you've misunderstood my intentions....and I'm sorry. Just like to debate this particular subject.
dkeester
"TSC's Master of Bourbon"
What makes a holiday into a holiday? What makes them special?
Traditions.
It is how we choose to celebrate and the cultural (and personal) touchstones that make the time special. Christmas is just another day without the Traditions that surround it.
Die Hard is now a Christmas tradition. It has become a cultural touchstone for the season. It is now a Christmas Movie.
Traditions.
It is how we choose to celebrate and the cultural (and personal) touchstones that make the time special. Christmas is just another day without the Traditions that surround it.
Die Hard is now a Christmas tradition. It has become a cultural touchstone for the season. It is now a Christmas Movie.
dkeester
"TSC's Master of Bourbon"
I will point out that it was friendly until you implied I am lazy for posting an internet article as part of my argument.
Also, you are simply dismissing every argument brought to you, saying "I've heard all of these points before.......it doesn't sway me." If you won't consider and discuss alternate points, it isn't a debate. It is just people yelling at each other.
At this point the mods should just delete this thread.
Based on the votes there sparky looks like you are getting riddled pretty good by machine gun fire
dkeester
"TSC's Master of Bourbon"
I will make another argument for tradition being the foundation (and really end-all, be all) of Christmas, which makes Die Hard a Christmas Movie.
Warning! Religious stuff to follow.
Celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ on December 25 is simply a tradition of some (i.e. most, but not all) sects of the Christian Church. The actual date of Christ's birth is unknown. There is even some indication that He may have been born in the Spring.
Here is one of those "lazy" links to support my argument: When Was Jesus Born? Biblical and Historical Evidence
The entire holiday, as currently celebrated, is based on traditions. Santa Claus, Christmas Trees, wreaths, hanging holly and mistletoe, carols, and the giving of gifts are all traditions. The don't intrinsically have anything to do with Christmas (i.e. the Celebration of the birth of Christ). And, not all of those traditions are universally celebrated in all parts of the world.
If Santa Claus and Christmas Trees are valid Christmas things, then Die Hard is an equally valid Christmas Tradition and therefore is a Christmas Movie. Christmas is what it is because of traditions that people celebrate, so Die Hard is a Christmas Movie.
This is why we send you peppermint every year for christmas. You are a s**t stirrer.
I will be honest with you......I really don't care if it is or not. But people always want to get so angry over this topic. I'm sure there's a doctorial thesis in the entire subject.
Doug (@dkeester ) I'm sorry if I came off hostile.....that was not where I was going....I see that just indescriminately calling internet research "lazy" was being a bit lazy on my part....my bad. And I should have also been clear that I've had a lot of these same discussions with other people....but you don't know that. So I'm sometimes guilty of brushing off points I feel I've heard before...and thats not cool in a debate.
That being said....the religious/tradition point that you make is a new one....and very interesting. Couldn't it be said that any film that is only relying on the culturally accepted traditions (santa, trees, mistle toe, ect) and not the religious side of christmas....perhaps doesn't qualify as a christmas movie at all?
Doug (@dkeester ) I'm sorry if I came off hostile.....that was not where I was going....I see that just indescriminately calling internet research "lazy" was being a bit lazy on my part....my bad. And I should have also been clear that I've had a lot of these same discussions with other people....but you don't know that. So I'm sometimes guilty of brushing off points I feel I've heard before...and thats not cool in a debate.
That being said....the religious/tradition point that you make is a new one....and very interesting. Couldn't it be said that any film that is only relying on the culturally accepted traditions (santa, trees, mistle toe, ect) and not the religious side of christmas....perhaps doesn't qualify as a christmas movie at all?
dkeester
"TSC's Master of Bourbon"
Agreed.
Thank you!
That is definitely something intentionally implied by my argument.
Here is another quote (from An Expert Explains ... The Origins of Christmas Words):
"The word Christmas came into English shortly after the Norman conquest, and grew out of the festival then referred to as ‘Christ’s mass’: the Christian tradition of taking holy communion/mass on the saint’s day dedicated to Jesus Christ. The -mas morpheme exists in similar festivals such as Michaelmas and Candlemas, although these may be less familiar to non-Christians."
So, going by the original definition of the word, anything not having to do with the religious observation of Christmas has nothing to do with the holiday.
It also means that Christmas is composed of the things that we say, do, eat, and watch that help us commemorate the Holiday and make it special.
Works ok for me Sharon Loves peppermint so I look like a hero, now if you sent Spearmint that might be different
ok guys this about a movie not religion so tread carefully
dkeester
"TSC's Master of Bourbon"
Apologies. I will take it in a different, but similar direction.
Fun fact:
In Japan eating KFC as the Christmas meal is an unofficial Christmas tradition nationwide.
If KFC can be a symbol of Christmas in Japan, Die Hard can be a symbol of Christmas in America.
That was not pointed Doug, just a reminder and I like the direction you went in, LOL
EMG06
"TSC's Bingo Admiral"
So basically…
(The man goes into room 12A. Another man is sitting behind a desk.)
Man: Is this the right room for an argument?
Other Man:(John Cleese) I've told you once.
Man: No you haven't!
Other Man: Yes I have.
M: When?
O: Just now.
M: No you didn't!
O: Yes I did!
M: You didn't!
O: I did!
M: You didn't!
O: I'm telling you, I did!
M: You did not!
O: Oh I'm sorry, is this a five minute argument, or the full half hour?
M: Ah! (taking out his wallet and paying) Just the five minutes.
O: Just the five minutes. Thank you.
O: Anyway, I did.
M: You most certainly did not!
O: Now let's get one thing quite clear: I most definitely told you!
M: Oh no you didn't!
O: Oh yes I did!
M: Oh no you didn't!
O: Oh yes I did!
M: Oh no you didn't!
O: Oh yes I did!
M: Oh no you didn't!
O: Oh yes I did!
M: Oh no you didn't!
O: Oh yes I did!
M: Oh no you didn't!
O: Oh yes I did!
M: No you DIDN'T!
O: Oh yes I did!
M: No you DIDN'T!
O: Oh yes I did!
M: No you DIDN'T!
O: Oh yes I did!
M: Oh look, this isn't an argument!
(pause)
O: Yes it is!
M: No it isn't!
(pause)
M: It's just contradiction!
O: No it isn't!
M: It IS!
O: It is NOT!
M: You just contradicted me!
O: No I didn't!
M: You DID!
O: No no no!
M: You did just then!
O: Nonsense!
M: (exasperated) Oh, this is futile!!
(pause)
O: No it isn't!
M: Yes it is!
(pause)
M: I came here for a good argument!
O: AH, no you didn't, you came here for an argument!
M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
O: Well! it CAN be!
M: No it can't!
M: An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
O: No it isn't!
M: Yes it is! 'tisn't just contradiction.
O: Look, if I *argue* with you, I must take up a contrary position!
M: Yes but it isn't just saying 'no it isn't'.
O: Yes it is!
M: No it isn't!
O: Yes it is!
M: No it isn't!
O: Yes it is!
M: No it ISN'T! Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of anything the other person says.
O: It is NOT!
M: It is!
O: Not at all!
M: It is!
(The Arguer hits a bell on his desk and stops.)
O: Thank you, that's it.
M: (stunned) What?
O: That's it. Good morning.
M: But I was just getting interested!
O: I'm sorry, the five minutes is up.
M: That was never five minutes just now!!
O: I'm afraid it was.
M: (leading on) No it wasn't.....
O: I'm sorry, I'm not allowed to argue any more.
(The man goes into room 12A. Another man is sitting behind a desk.)
Man: Is this the right room for an argument?
Other Man:(John Cleese) I've told you once.
Man: No you haven't!
Other Man: Yes I have.
M: When?
O: Just now.
M: No you didn't!
O: Yes I did!
M: You didn't!
O: I did!
M: You didn't!
O: I'm telling you, I did!
M: You did not!
O: Oh I'm sorry, is this a five minute argument, or the full half hour?
M: Ah! (taking out his wallet and paying) Just the five minutes.
O: Just the five minutes. Thank you.
O: Anyway, I did.
M: You most certainly did not!
O: Now let's get one thing quite clear: I most definitely told you!
M: Oh no you didn't!
O: Oh yes I did!
M: Oh no you didn't!
O: Oh yes I did!
M: Oh no you didn't!
O: Oh yes I did!
M: Oh no you didn't!
O: Oh yes I did!
M: Oh no you didn't!
O: Oh yes I did!
M: Oh no you didn't!
O: Oh yes I did!
M: No you DIDN'T!
O: Oh yes I did!
M: No you DIDN'T!
O: Oh yes I did!
M: No you DIDN'T!
O: Oh yes I did!
M: Oh look, this isn't an argument!
(pause)
O: Yes it is!
M: No it isn't!
(pause)
M: It's just contradiction!
O: No it isn't!
M: It IS!
O: It is NOT!
M: You just contradicted me!
O: No I didn't!
M: You DID!
O: No no no!
M: You did just then!
O: Nonsense!
M: (exasperated) Oh, this is futile!!
(pause)
O: No it isn't!
M: Yes it is!
(pause)
M: I came here for a good argument!
O: AH, no you didn't, you came here for an argument!
M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
O: Well! it CAN be!
M: No it can't!
M: An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
O: No it isn't!
M: Yes it is! 'tisn't just contradiction.
O: Look, if I *argue* with you, I must take up a contrary position!
M: Yes but it isn't just saying 'no it isn't'.
O: Yes it is!
M: No it isn't!
O: Yes it is!
M: No it isn't!
O: Yes it is!
M: No it ISN'T! Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of anything the other person says.
O: It is NOT!
M: It is!
O: Not at all!
M: It is!
(The Arguer hits a bell on his desk and stops.)
O: Thank you, that's it.
M: (stunned) What?
O: That's it. Good morning.
M: But I was just getting interested!
O: I'm sorry, the five minutes is up.
M: That was never five minutes just now!!
O: I'm afraid it was.
M: (leading on) No it wasn't.....
O: I'm sorry, I'm not allowed to argue any more.