Dave in KY
Shave Newbie
TOTALLY agree
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Corona Virus
- Thread starter Cvargo
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Thanks HMan, that gives others an opposing viewpoint to read and come to their own conclusions. I will note though that Bloomberg is a left leaning news outlet, but you must read those viewpoints and those of Dr. Scott Atlas and decide for yourself what you believe. That used to be what the news media would do for us, but now each one seems bent on telling us what we should believe instead of presenting both sides and letting each person form their own opinion. Imagine if there were a trial and the prosecution told the jury in opening statements "Folks, I'm completely right and if you listen to any other viewpoint than mine I will fine you and or put you in jail or at the very least belittle you publicly." We citizens are the jury and we must do our due diligence to hold our public officials accountable. We do that by thinking for ourselves and digging into all the information objectively.
On the subject of Dr. Atlas I must say, how is him speaking out against a lot of this beneficial to him? It certainly won't help his career to point out data and studies that contradict much of the popular thinking. I find the people with the most to lose are often times the most credible because they put everything on the line to make their point. It's far to easy to lick your finger professionally and check which way the wind is blowing and go that way. It's far too easy for us regular people to do the same. It's why I encourage everyone to dig in and check out these things for yourself. I've provided several posts now of information and I hope it is helpful for some to read and decide things for themselves.
Happy shaving TSC!
The Study I posted was a German study. There are a couple other studies suggesting the same thing.
And what if a Vaccine never comes about? Can we live like this forever?.....(asking for a friend)
haggises
Shave Member
Re: Israel. Agreed they had great success early on.
Then they may have opened up too fast, too soon, now their case load is twice what it was in first wave.
www.wsj.com
re: Sweden
Sweden deaths - 5593
Norway deaths (1/2 population) - 273
Norway locked down quickly. Sweden took some social measures, no lockdown, but still acted earlier than Spain, Italy and UK and has a lower death per capita than those countries.
No-one has any idea if herd immunity has been reached in Sweden, or if it is achievable. There is disappointing news on antibodies, but positive news on T-cells, so who knows? Certainly not Dr Atlas.
Sweden GDP - forecast to contract 5.4%
Norway GDP - forecast to contract 5.5%
www.reuters.com
www.reuters.com
Were 5000 extra deaths worth that 0.1% GDP this year?
Then they may have opened up too fast, too soon, now their case load is twice what it was in first wave.
Israelis Fear Schools Reopened Too Soon as Covid-19 Cases Climb
Some Israeli public-health officials are blaming the country’s decision to reopen schools in May for helping fuel a large new wave undefinedof coronavirus infections that has prompted authorities to shut down sections of the economy once again.
www.wsj.com
re: Sweden
Sweden deaths - 5593
Norway deaths (1/2 population) - 273
Norway locked down quickly. Sweden took some social measures, no lockdown, but still acted earlier than Spain, Italy and UK and has a lower death per capita than those countries.
No-one has any idea if herd immunity has been reached in Sweden, or if it is achievable. There is disappointing news on antibodies, but positive news on T-cells, so who knows? Certainly not Dr Atlas.
Sweden GDP - forecast to contract 5.4%
Norway GDP - forecast to contract 5.5%
Swedish think tank sees GDP contracting 5.4% this year
Sweden's economy will take a big hit this year but is expected to fare better than the economies in the eurozone, a leading think tank said on Wednesday.
www.reuters.com
Norway Q1 GDP contracts, 2020 seen plunging 5.5%
The Norwegian economy contracted in the first quarter and risks a 5.5% plunge for the full year as efforts to halt the novel coronavirus outbreak brought many industries to a standstill, Statistics Norway (SSB) said on Friday.
www.reuters.com
Were 5000 extra deaths worth that 0.1% GDP this year?
Sweden's death rate has dropped to nearly zero. Also new diagnoses have dropped extremely low.
Children, school and COVID-19 | RIVM
Worldwide, relatively few children have been reported with COVID-19, the disease caused by the coronavirus SARS-CoV-2.
sorry.
woodpusher
TSC’s International Man of Meh
You prepping to move to Canada?
Good question. I guess we will see.
Well I just know I'm still nervous / scared of this thing and after our governor made his announcement yesterday my 12 year old said. " I want to do virtual school " I'm proud of him being responsible enough to say that on his own.. He misses his friends but knows there is no way that its time to reopen schools yet....
Can we live like this forever? Of course not. But wanting to return to business as usual before COVID doesn’t seem too realistic either. I think we’d be making more progress if everyone was on board with trying to live with COVID instead of wanting to act like it’s all over. Maybe this should be the death of self service buffets. Or temp checks and masks should always be required at a movie theater. It’s just dealing with realities instead of trying to force a return to a time that likely will not be again.
I hate that this is our new normal but I LOVE your sentiments here... Everyone wants to act like this is over. its NOT.. In all honesty this is still JUST Beginning.. People need to realize we have to be careful and stop acting like this doesn't affect them.. This affects Everyone. what you do directly affects me and vice versa We need to find a way to live with this that will protect everyone or at least make it safer for everyone. other countries have worn mask for years and that is their normal way of life why should we as a society think we are better than anyone else. Have we sunk so low that we only think of ourselves and not our fellow persons ? If I were to catch this virus I would not want to affect anyone else but others dont feel the same way people go out unprotected and dont care anymore it is such a shame and I am so disappointed in people these days.....
Oh I also wanted to say i was telling someone who is young ( about 20 ) yesterday about what my 12 year old said about school and he said he was proud of jjay for being so responsible at such a young age.. He also said it was also bad that a 12 year old is more responsible than most of the people he knows that are around his age. he also stated he wishes more of society was that responsible...... I agree fully.
I agree somewhat. When people were talking about living through COVID there was a sense of unity in the thread, but that's not the evolution of the thread. When personal perspectives and beliefs are presented as the only truth out there it does beg for others to present more information. It's why I jumped in. I've been following this thread, but it seemed kinda skewed toward one direction. If one is not open to all data then bias taints everything.
What I see most now out in the community is a rabid nastiness toward anyone who dares question the status quo. We in NY are told constantly by our Governor that he's making decisions on facts and science. Where is it? Did he look at the stuff I'm seeing out there, because it shows a different picture. People make fun and belittle the intelligence of anyone not onboard with the popular narrative today. If you so much as dare question and ask why and what evidence supports this or that it's just nastiness out there. People at my work are yelling at people for not having their mask up when they are over 6 feet away from them. NY executive orders only declare you need a mask when you can't be 6 feet away from someone else. I see people driving around everyday with a mask on in their car. This all is tearing up America. Neighbors are turning in neighbors and businesses for non-compliance. Sadly it reminds me of Russia where you got more government rations for turning in a neighbor to the government or North Korea, this is not America. Nobody should be ok with getting a temp check and wearing a mask forever. There's nothing normal about a cage.
I have to confess, I have no idea who Dr Atlas is, or opinion about him...never knowingly/purposefully read an article written by him. But I do tend to be skeptical of highly contrarian or controversial sources. How is speaking out against this beneficial to him/her is the first thing I question when I see or hear controversial, attention getting or highly unique content on subjects like this. I am always skeptical of any and ALL who jump out in front to ‘speak out against....” ANY subject that seems to have such importance as COVID related issues might. Particularly when they take or hold a position that is contrary to established mainstream or a position being proposed by other high profile (and vetted) people. If they use a lot of words, use big words, build suspense for pages or feel they need to ‘educate’ or ‘inform’ me before getting to the punchline...I count them as a being in it for a buck even if I can’t see how or why. The answer is in the question, WHY would a person with such controversial views or who draws so much negative attention on him/herself choose to speak out and be a public punching bag (Dr. Fauchi?) unless it is their job or they are to benefit from it? A classic example I often get presented with is Parker Stansbury, he’s always got a pitch in play about some ‘the sky is falling and nobody knows it but me...‘ thing.
Our collective attention span is far too short. But if we Gameify the tasks we want people to do we could get them to do anything. Give them ‘stay at home’ points and ‘mask’ merits. For every roll of toilet paper they LEAVE for someone else they get 10 free Buttcoin they can trade in for a soy latte frappe mocha cha cha. Of course you have to turn in your surprise buttcoin if you fail your temperature check or get caught with your mask hanging around your chin while talking on your cell phone in the checkout. And you extra points if you wear your mask and gloves while driving alone...but make sure we can ALL see you do it. (Because it’s funny. And we know you aren’t talking on your cell phone while driving)
I think what you're seeing is that because of the topic and the way the world sees this topic, the thread is going to naturally mirror the division over the virus that has taken place all over the planet. It was inevitable. But that's not a bad thing. Unfortunately, not everything in life is agreeable and pleasant. Much in life is unpleasant. This happens to be one of those things that is unpleasant. It's important for people to be able to air their points of view. But only so long as the discussion is civil. I broke that commandment and won't be doing that again. Civil discussion many not change any minds but it can be therapeutic to just be able to voice one's own opinion.
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