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Corona Virus
- Thread starter Cvargo
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I know I’m preaching to the choir, but either way people know what’s expected of them so it’s asinine to go somewhere and then argue about rules you knew were in place.
Dave in KY
Shave Newbie
Same here for the next 30 days due to spikes........Confrontations sure to follow.......
I agree. It just drives me nuts. The local politicians are playing the game that these business can make whatever rules they want, when in reality they are threatening businesses that they will have licenses revoked if the don't comply. The politicians are dodging from the repercussion of their policies.
Since turning off the 24 hour news cycle for months now and actually studying this on my own I've come to see COVID in a way that reminds me of two movies. The Wizard of Oz, and the Matrix. On one hand a reasonable American sees that many people have died from this virus and it spreads crazy quickly, but I always felt like I was missing something, that there was some other force driving this thing that didn't make much sense to me.
In Wizard of Oz Dorothy stands trembling with fear in front of this huge specter of smoke yelling at her that appears to be some great powerful wizard that sends her friends running in fear, but then Toto the little dog notices some feet behind the drapes. Toto looked around. He took his eyes off the overblown show in front of him and looked around and ultimately discovered the smoke blowing specter was actually a man pulling levers behind the drapes who was in fact the real Wizard of Oz, not what he projected up front that scared everyone....well everyone but Toto.
In the Matrix, Neo was a computer hacker who detected small things in the network that weren't right. Neo saw his world but knew somehow something wasn't right. He saw anomalies in how things were working and being presented to him. In the end, he only realizes that he was living in an altered reality created for him to live in - a computer program basically and he was nothing more than a battery to run the computer. He exits this computer program by having a choice to take the red pill or the blue pill. One would allow him to rejoin the status quo, remain in the program while the other would allow him to see the situation in facts and reality. He takes the red pill and exits the program.
Turning off the spoon fed "program" and doing my own research shows there is indeed someone, some people, some groups behind the drapes. It's best summarized below and represents my offer to you to take the red pill. Ignore the information in the links and you take the blue pill and resume living your life. Your choice.
Lockdown Lunacy: the thinking person's guide — j.b. handley blog
LOCKDOWN LUNACY 2.0: Second wave? Not even close. • Children's Health Defense
I've not seen the facts and sources to back them up presented better anywhere else. Read it and decide for yourselves. No shame either way. I won't think less of anyone that disagrees. I just want people to have more information.
In Wizard of Oz Dorothy stands trembling with fear in front of this huge specter of smoke yelling at her that appears to be some great powerful wizard that sends her friends running in fear, but then Toto the little dog notices some feet behind the drapes. Toto looked around. He took his eyes off the overblown show in front of him and looked around and ultimately discovered the smoke blowing specter was actually a man pulling levers behind the drapes who was in fact the real Wizard of Oz, not what he projected up front that scared everyone....well everyone but Toto.
In the Matrix, Neo was a computer hacker who detected small things in the network that weren't right. Neo saw his world but knew somehow something wasn't right. He saw anomalies in how things were working and being presented to him. In the end, he only realizes that he was living in an altered reality created for him to live in - a computer program basically and he was nothing more than a battery to run the computer. He exits this computer program by having a choice to take the red pill or the blue pill. One would allow him to rejoin the status quo, remain in the program while the other would allow him to see the situation in facts and reality. He takes the red pill and exits the program.
Turning off the spoon fed "program" and doing my own research shows there is indeed someone, some people, some groups behind the drapes. It's best summarized below and represents my offer to you to take the red pill. Ignore the information in the links and you take the blue pill and resume living your life. Your choice.
Lockdown Lunacy: the thinking person's guide — j.b. handley blog
LOCKDOWN LUNACY 2.0: Second wave? Not even close. • Children's Health Defense
I've not seen the facts and sources to back them up presented better anywhere else. Read it and decide for yourselves. No shame either way. I won't think less of anyone that disagrees. I just want people to have more information.
I was curious about the 2nd article you posted but could only get through about half of it. I have to say I can't agree with the conclusions at all. The biggest glaring issue I see is focusing on the mortality alone and not factoring the the morbidity at all.
It also lists things as "fact" that are assumptions or leaps of logic. I will agree that positive cases of course increase because of increased testing, but the example used as to it also increasing hospitalizations is BS. A hospital is NOT bringing in someone for elective knee surgery if they test positive for COVID. Resources are still an issue. And I briefly looked for reference to a study that shows there is 70% natural immunity. I did not find any other than assumption based on numbers. I'd say 1300 inmates out of 3000 is a pretty good sample size to show across a wide sample of genetically unrelated people that didn't hold true.
It also lists things as "fact" that are assumptions or leaps of logic. I will agree that positive cases of course increase because of increased testing, but the example used as to it also increasing hospitalizations is BS. A hospital is NOT bringing in someone for elective knee surgery if they test positive for COVID. Resources are still an issue. And I briefly looked for reference to a study that shows there is 70% natural immunity. I did not find any other than assumption based on numbers. I'd say 1300 inmates out of 3000 is a pretty good sample size to show across a wide sample of genetically unrelated people that didn't hold true.
Dave in KY
Shave Newbie
Nail and head meet. 1 John 5:19
Naw, we are civilized here and Nurse Dave is entitled to disagree with what I presented and he's done so in a way that sits just fine with me. At the end of the day we all love shaving and find common ground there.
I hold no ill will toward anyone who disagrees and challenge them to present studies and data to the contrary so others can see it and make decisions for themselves. Facts and data separate the emotion out of this thing and allow us to see things clearly. Most importantly, read all you can on COVID and make informed decisions for yourself.
I hold no ill will toward anyone who disagrees and challenge them to present studies and data to the contrary so others can see it and make decisions for themselves. Facts and data separate the emotion out of this thing and allow us to see things clearly. Most importantly, read all you can on COVID and make informed decisions for yourself.
I'll applaud at the civil discourse displayed. Thank you for not making it personal and keeping it civil.
We are all in this together and a majority of us consider each other friends. We don't all have to agree on everything.
So again thank you all for not making it personal. Let's continue to keep it civil.
We are all in this together and a majority of us consider each other friends. We don't all have to agree on everything.
So again thank you all for not making it personal. Let's continue to keep it civil.
Our cities have placed the mandates for mask but a lot of these kindly people in the state still want to go without... its (What's another word for crazy inserted here i'm trying to be nice..)...
A Little levity.... I dont drink beer much, as I like Guinness, however it was 114 This past weekend and we went to have dinner with a small group of friends to play dominos, which we have not done in awhile for burgers and dogs. Well in the Grocer ( wearing my mask of course ) , I ( being on KETO) was looking for a low carb beer. Like it or not a Corona with Lime is perfect for a hot day. It MUST have a lime or.... well lets just say it is as polarizing as The Veg. Anyway I had not tried the Premiere, so what the heck. As I am approaching the check out, my wife looks down...
"Really"
"What"?
"Corona"? are you kidding?" ( laughing )
"Oh Jesus, it is just the name of the ( colorful adjective) beer"
This now garnered the attention of some other patrons, who despite the pandemic, have not lost their "Smartassedness" and the jokes flew. What happened next was certainly Satan coming out for a visit.
"Really Folks, it is just a beer, and frankly I am a bit upset ( a very serious tone) All I want is to have a beer as I have just been diagnosed...."
(PIN DROP and akward silence) of which I savored for a few minutes while everyone shifted uncomfortably and my wife's jaw became unhinged.
" Just kidding"
The groans and looks started
" I only did that so you guys could see how idiotic it was to make fun of a Beer's name over this. Kinda over-thinking things huh"
( I know I am a stinker )
Anyway, the saw the lunacy of thier ways and actually appreciated the fact that with all this terror, someone could still maintain a warped sense of humor. That being said as we were walking to the car.....
"I cannot believe you said that" ( laughing) "You are such an ( colorful adjective )
"People need to lighten up, we will get through this and laughter is the only thing that will keep us sane, and I needed to shock them into smiling"
Made it to friends and the razzing began all over again......... I guess my beer choice now has consequences, ROFL. Needless to say even in all this we need to smile, laugh, and look at the bigger picture. HOPE!
~ that is all, and as Chad stated thanks for keeping it civil
"Really"
"What"?
"Corona"? are you kidding?" ( laughing )
"Oh Jesus, it is just the name of the ( colorful adjective) beer"
This now garnered the attention of some other patrons, who despite the pandemic, have not lost their "Smartassedness" and the jokes flew. What happened next was certainly Satan coming out for a visit.
"Really Folks, it is just a beer, and frankly I am a bit upset ( a very serious tone) All I want is to have a beer as I have just been diagnosed...."
(PIN DROP and akward silence) of which I savored for a few minutes while everyone shifted uncomfortably and my wife's jaw became unhinged.
" Just kidding"
The groans and looks started
" I only did that so you guys could see how idiotic it was to make fun of a Beer's name over this. Kinda over-thinking things huh"
( I know I am a stinker )
"I cannot believe you said that" ( laughing) "You are such an ( colorful adjective )
"People need to lighten up, we will get through this and laughter is the only thing that will keep us sane, and I needed to shock them into smiling"
Made it to friends and the razzing began all over again......... I guess my beer choice now has consequences, ROFL. Needless to say even in all this we need to smile, laugh, and look at the bigger picture. HOPE!
~ that is all, and as Chad stated thanks for keeping it civil
Dave in KY
Shave Newbie
beginish
The Dr. Who of the TSC
I've looked at the opinions ranging from "Shut it down" to "Open it up" and everything in between, and am always taken by the way everyone uses the numbers and statistics to justify their points of view. This is certainly helpful when evaluating progress and planning going forward. That said, each number, as large as it is, is the sum of a whole lot of ones, and we can't forget that there is an individual behind that 'one,' with his/her own experience with the virus. It's a nothing burger for most, and the ultimate price for many. With the infectivity of this virus being what it is, we can't take for granted that for every subset of groups we look at, none of them is in isolation. That school with 800 kids under 18 is run by 100-200 faculty and staff aged 25-70, who go home to some multiple of people aged 0-100.
Many other countries got their number of infections and infection rates way down, such that your chance of encountering the virus in the wild is many times lower than it is here in the States. The lower the chance of meeting the virus, it's far less likely for grandma to get infected. Let's not kill grandma.
Many other countries got their number of infections and infection rates way down, such that your chance of encountering the virus in the wild is many times lower than it is here in the States. The lower the chance of meeting the virus, it's far less likely for grandma to get infected. Let's not kill grandma.
Well, you know great minds and all LOL
HMan
Doften Savant
With this new set of spikes, it's hard to buy into the idea that "locking down society was a bone-headed policy decision so devastating to society that historians may judge it as the all-time worst decision ever made." Nothing personal, but I read that, and know, I need read no further for unbiased info. Living in a place that has successfully locked down, with no indications of it being a bad decision reinforce that to me.
Certainly the U.S. going from lock down to mass demonstrations didn't help the current spike, but it also reinforces that there are reasonable arguments on the side of lock down.
Could it be better, could we be finding more effective and efficient solutions? Sure, but locking down seems to be in the set of effective solutions. And most likely any best possible solution is going to involve some form of locking down.
The other thing, and this just pains the heck out of me, is that, there are just a lot of people out there who plain don't care about who they get sick. How many videos have we all seen of people weaponizing coughing on others? Refusing to wear masks for other's safety? The sad fact of the matter is that a significant portion of people, left to their own, will discard public safety.
Sadly, the person I know who passed this weekend, was absolutely a casualty, due to his line of work, he was a DJ. Things opened up in Arizona and he went back to work. Which is also why, I'm a little emotional about this. It was pretty hard having to contribute to their Go Fund Me this morning.
As a scientific experiment, it would be hard to come up with a better A B test for the efficacy of locking down than Sweden vs Finland.
Finland and Sweden are countries of very similar size and culture. Sweden has roughly twice the population.
Finland enacted varying degrees of locking down. Most of it has been removed this week, other than some travel limitations, and a few changes in how restaurants operate.
Sweden no lock down, just trust people to do the right thing.
Our death rate was around 8x lower than Sweden adjusted for population. Economic effects on both nations have been similar, however Finland is opening up and beginning recovery, and has been doing so step by step for some time. However Sweden is still on the no go list in Europe, they still have too many cases.
Warning: some people react poorly
Certainly the U.S. going from lock down to mass demonstrations didn't help the current spike, but it also reinforces that there are reasonable arguments on the side of lock down.
Could it be better, could we be finding more effective and efficient solutions? Sure, but locking down seems to be in the set of effective solutions. And most likely any best possible solution is going to involve some form of locking down.
The other thing, and this just pains the heck out of me, is that, there are just a lot of people out there who plain don't care about who they get sick. How many videos have we all seen of people weaponizing coughing on others? Refusing to wear masks for other's safety? The sad fact of the matter is that a significant portion of people, left to their own, will discard public safety.
Sadly, the person I know who passed this weekend, was absolutely a casualty, due to his line of work, he was a DJ. Things opened up in Arizona and he went back to work. Which is also why, I'm a little emotional about this. It was pretty hard having to contribute to their Go Fund Me this morning.
As a scientific experiment, it would be hard to come up with a better A B test for the efficacy of locking down than Sweden vs Finland.
Finland and Sweden are countries of very similar size and culture. Sweden has roughly twice the population.
Finland enacted varying degrees of locking down. Most of it has been removed this week, other than some travel limitations, and a few changes in how restaurants operate.
Sweden no lock down, just trust people to do the right thing.
Our death rate was around 8x lower than Sweden adjusted for population. Economic effects on both nations have been similar, however Finland is opening up and beginning recovery, and has been doing so step by step for some time. However Sweden is still on the no go list in Europe, they still have too many cases.
Warning: some people react poorly
I am going to preface this thought with that I have no scientific backing for my claim. I am just using my common sense which isn't always common. ALSO please realize this pertain to my situation which is Utah. If you want to see our trends. Go to coronavirus.utah.gov
anyways. We like the rest of the country stopped school and shut everything down March 13th, then the earthquake hit March 14th. I'll be honest. While the virus was here then it was predominately ALL outside travel cases hardly any community spread. The cases where low. But we went full lockdown. Everyone complied... we were scared. Scared to be New York. But what that did in my opinion was give us false hope and a shut down that many say did nothing. Because now that we have opened up for about 6-8 weeks along with other states and having outside travel we are in a really bad peak. Hospitals near capacity. But guess what we are still yellow threat level which is considered low! Why? Because the people will NOT lock down again. Flat out will not do it! I know hindsight is 20/20 but it seems the right thing to do would have been to enforce 6 ft, masks, and social distancing in the beginning. AND IF/when it got worse THEN do the shutdown. I believe more people will die now because poeple will not comply with a stay home order again.
anyways. We like the rest of the country stopped school and shut everything down March 13th, then the earthquake hit March 14th. I'll be honest. While the virus was here then it was predominately ALL outside travel cases hardly any community spread. The cases where low. But we went full lockdown. Everyone complied... we were scared. Scared to be New York. But what that did in my opinion was give us false hope and a shut down that many say did nothing. Because now that we have opened up for about 6-8 weeks along with other states and having outside travel we are in a really bad peak. Hospitals near capacity. But guess what we are still yellow threat level which is considered low! Why? Because the people will NOT lock down again. Flat out will not do it! I know hindsight is 20/20 but it seems the right thing to do would have been to enforce 6 ft, masks, and social distancing in the beginning. AND IF/when it got worse THEN do the shutdown. I believe more people will die now because poeple will not comply with a stay home order again.
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