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Suggest a starter set?

DocHoliday0831

Won't Share His Sugar Daddy
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i am seriously considering buying a traditional straight, a relatively inexpensive one and some stones and strop. I have always been fascinated with making metal things cut other things and this step seems my most logical next step. My question is for a new straight honer what stones can I not live without and what is the easiest learning curve set I could get?
 
Great question TJ. I'm no honemeister, but there are a couple of avenues you can take IRT getting started in the honing world. You first need to decide whether you want to go natural or synthetic, or a combination there of. I personally use synthetics to set my bevels, and a JNAT working through different Mikawa Naguras (slurry stones) to refine my edges. I've had pretty good success with this, though I really don't have much to compare to. Eventually I'm going to send one of my razors out to Alfredo in the littlest state to have a professional JNAT edge put on and see how I'm shaping up.

I started out, however, using an inexpensive King 1k stone for bevels and lapping film for refinement and finishing. I had mixed results with this, and ended up investing in some better synthetic stones for the bevel setting and some initial edge refinement, in the Shapton Professional 1.5k and 4k stones. If you want what many consider to be the top tier bevel setting stone, look to the Chosera 1k. Eric (Smattayu) would be a great person to speak with on the lapping film, as he's had great results with it.

With any stone, you're going to need to get something to lap it flat periodically, so a diamond plate or lapping plate is a necessity. I have a 400 and 1k lapping plate/honing plate for this, but wish that I had spent a little bit more and gone with an Atoma diamond plate instead. Having a flat stone is a prerequisite for getting a properly honed blade, and its importance can't be understated.

Some people have the best luck with a straight synthetic progression of stones. If you decide to go this route, try to stay with the same type of stones. (i.e. Shapton Glass stones from 1k through 16k or whatever you're using as a finisher).

There are others that are all about using a single stone to do everything from bevel setting to finishing on one stone using different thickness slurries. This is typically done on a Belgium Coticule, but it takes some practice to get the single stone honing down. I could do this as well with the JNAT and a full Nagura progression, but it takes a while to set bevels doing that, which is why I have the synths.

Cost wise, Coticules can represent possibly the best value, as you can do all of your honing on that stone. But the trade off is the time you're going to spend on them. JNAT's tend to be more expensive per stone, but you can find good stones and nagura sets for around $200. Typical bench sized JNAT's get very pricey, however, some costing upwards of $1k depending on the mine and vein they come from. A similar sized Coticule can be obtained for 1/3-1/2 the cost, and only requires one slurry stone.

My personal recommendation would be to go with a synthetic progression and a good lapping plate, however. There is no slurry to worry about, and it's generally a straight progression from one stone to the next. Naniwa Super Stones, Shapton Glass Stones, Shapton Professionals are all a good place to start from. A progression would look like this: 1K, 3-4K, 6-8K, 12K. You can stop there, or keep going with the 16k Shapton glass stone, or the pricey 20k Suehiro Gokumyo. There are other stones that can be fit into that progression as well, but for bevel set to finish, four stones should be plenty. You can do further refinement of the blade with a pasted balsa strop and regular stropping. The downside to the synthetics are that many claim they just don't have the "zen" feel that honing with a natural stone does.

If you're just wanting to keep it inexpensive, get a decent bevel setter, (doesn't have to be a Chosera 1k) a lapping plate, and a progression of lapping film. Make sure you have a flat surface to use with the lapping film...a piece of smooth tile or something along those lines. You'll be out a fraction of the cost of going with a full progression of stones, it takes up less room, and again, is pretty straight forward in its use and function. There are people who get edges sharp enough to cut through time with lapping film, so it definitely works. They might not be the most forgiving of edges, however.

In the end, it's all what you're looking to get out of it. If you're just looking for a finishing stone, there are plenty of options out there that I didn't touch on such as Arkansas stones, Thuringian (thuri's), etc...because I have zero experience with them. Hope this helps!
 
This is something I have also been toying with. From what little research I have done, it seems that synthetic stones and lapping film are cheaper and easier. I am not sure when I will start trying this, but I think I am going to start with either lapping film or Naniwa Super Stones.

For now though, I am going to keep sending them out to be honed.
 
This is a rabbit hole I have stayed away from. I will stick with my Feather system. I have been teetering on the fragrance rabbit hole. Right now I am hanging onto the edge and am almost in freefall.
 
As Eric has pointed out there are a number of ways to go. For simple maintenance or minor honing an assortment pack of lapping film and a granite tile is a cheap and reliable way to go. Stepping up to "stones" doesn't have to be expensive or complex. You definitely need a "bevel setter", whether this is a 1000 grit King or Chosera (there are some chinese knock offs that work pretty well too) or a 4000 grit is up to you. I say get a good 4000 grit rather than a cheap 1000. I found a Norton combo stone 1k/4k and only use the 4k side...norton is a good stone. You could choose to use a nice Norton (a 4k/8k or similar would be awesome) then do all the finishing on lapping film.

After having gone through a few things I think a solid starter set would be:
Granite tile cut into 3rds - use this with 600/800 grit sandpaper to lap your stones
1000 grit King stone or 4000 grit Norton- 3" wide is good but 2.5" offers some advantages you will appreciate.
Set of Welsh stones (the Welsh Trio)- these will cost $60-$70
Balsa Strops- use the remaining 2/3's of the granite slab to glue a length of 3x.24" piece of balsa to. Lap these dead flat and apply Either FeOX and CrOx OR 0.25 micron & 0.10 micron diamond paste/spray.

This set up will be cheap and easy to use. The slates don't require any unique technique and are easy to keep flat. The slate can also be used with dish soap or oil to really kick up the finish...the balsa strops can keep an edge fresh OR kick up an edge that needs a little more work.

I really like Coticules because they can do a wide range of work. Often they can take you from bevel set to finish. The only reason i don't recommend a coticule as a starter is because you won't know the character of the stone until you get it, you may need a longer learning curve because the technique you use can change the outcome. Still, a basic bevel setter, a good coticule and a set of balsa strops would make a rock solid honing kit.
 
Just for clarification and understanding the basic progression principles are the same as I would use for a knife just with much higher grit stones.

Knives my progression is
diamond plates:
50,100,140,300,600,1500
then dans trans ark
then loaded kangaroo strops (all loaded with CBN emulsion)
4 micron, 1.5 micron, .5 micron, .1 micron and a empty clean strop
 
The only thing I will add to this is this:
If you are just starting to learn to shave with a straight razor, wait till you get that down good with a know honemeister's edge before you start learning to hone. Attempting to learn to hone and straight shave at the same time can and more than likely would be a recipe for a lot of frustration.
 
clyde72 said:
The only thing I will add to this is this:
If you are just starting to learn to shave with a straight razor, wait till you get that down good with a know honemeister's edge before you start learning to hone. Attempting to learn to hone and straight shave at the same time can and more than likely would be a recipe for a lot of frustration.

I likely will not switch from the Feather SS for quite some time as far as shaving with the straights goes. My focus is more on the lines of expanding my capabilities at making metal things sharp. That seems to me to be the ultimate in sharpening ability. If I can make a razor shave then I should be able to sharpen anything I want kind of thing
 
DocHoliday0831 said:
If I can make a swedish steel razor shave then I should be able to sharpen anything I want kind of thing

fixed that for ya TJ! ?
 
Josh and Chris covered pretty much all the basics and then some. I got two Norton combo stones for a good price on Amazon when I got started. A 220/1k combo and a 4k/8k combo. The Nortons seems to be a little more coarse than most other stones of similar grit, but they work well as long as you have a good finisher after the 8k. As Josh mentioned, I have used lapping film and have gotten good and consistent results from it. It might be the least expensive way to get started(probably about $25-$30 to get you from bevel set to finish), and would probably work well for a beginner. The trade-off is that unlike stones, which have years worth of material to use before they are no longer viable, once a sheet of lapping film is done, it's done. It can still be repurposed to polish blades and such, but if you aren't restoring blades you might as well pitch it.

It is generally considered true, and I've found it to be this way as well, that synthetics are easier to start out with than natural stones. My normal progression is the Norton stones from bevel set(1k to set the bevel if it needs a lot of work, 4k if it's fairly straight) to 8k, then lapping film to finish up. I've got several natural stones, but have never really spent the time on them that I should. Hopefully someday.
 
My opinion, jump in small, get lapping paper, see if it is something you like and go from there. A small investment before you go to the quarry
 
You guys sold me. Exactly when I start, I do not know, but the film will probably be my jumping off point. Now off to watch some videos on it.
 
Quijote said:
You guys sold me. Exactly when I start, I do not know, but the film will probably be my jumping off point. Now off to watch some videos on it.
when you order make sure you are getting FILM not paper, there is a difference.

If you search you might find some vids done by SlashMcCoy, he makes it look easy (because it CAN be). He really understands the lapping films and gets great results using them.
 
CBLindsay said:
when you order make sure you are getting FILM not paper, there is a difference.

If you search you might find some vids done by SlashMcCoy, he makes it look easy (because it CAN be). He really understands the lapping films and gets great results using them.

At one point, I read his entire write up about that. As well as his diamond paste progression.

That is a good point about making sure I get the film. I heard you guys talk about the other material not being as good. I don't want to shoot myself in the foot before I even start.
 
Don I found this source for film:
Specialized Products Co.

I would also recommend getting a small granite surface plate like this one, instead of a thick piece of glass.

All the local glass shops in my area wanted to charge me about this same price or more for a piece of glass. I didn't think about the small granite surface plate until I had already got a piece of glass.
 
This is another option for the lapping film:

http://www.fiberinstrumentsales.com/consumables/polishing-film.html

The granite plate will work great. You could go even less expensive and get a marble tile from Lowes or Home Depot. They can cut it into three 3" pieces while you're there, and then you've got a piece for your lapping film and two pieces for pasted balsa, if you want to go that route for touch ups.
 
A lot of really good stuff for you to ponder TJ. I too was a knife sharp freak before jumping into straight razors. As Craig said, don't do what I did and try to learn shaving and honing at the same time. As Eric said, the Norton stones are coarser than the Japanese standard stones of the same grit designation, but they are good stones. I use King 1K and 6K for sharpening kitchen knives, so I began setting razor bevels on a King 1K. I never used films but I know many who have to very good result. I have spent way more on stones/hones than any sane person should, but I did not have to to get a good result. Synthetic or film is probably the best place to start without breaking the bank. They are tried and true. Natural stones are fun, and you will likely get there one day, but nature did not make them all equal.
 
I meant to say Lapping film not paper, I dont know if I am coming or going right now, LOL
 
I want to get into this as well, but never found the time to start. I did start collecting some stones. I have a Norton 4/8 and a bunch of barber hones. I have a set of films, but never got the piece of marble for it. I went to Lowes once, but didn't know what I was looking for. Eventually I'll get into this, but it's been forever since I've even used a straight.
 
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