Mitchells Wool Fat

[PLANofMAN]

I'm a big fan of MWF. In fact, if I had to choose one soap to use every shave for the rest of my life, it's not even a hard decision - it's MWF.

It will not lather using the city water supply in Baltimore. I had to use distilled, which worked fine, and a gallon lasts years.

I strongly suspect that for many people who have encountered difficulty lathering MWF, and there are many, switching to distilled water is a worthwhile early experimental measure to solve the issue.

You do it pretty much like I do it, and it's always helpful to share this kind of expertise.

The struggle to help people lather MWF is one of the eternal nobilities of the hobby. It's so good, everyone should be able to enjoy it.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

The only thing that I do differently in my normal routine is I generally don't need to add water to the puck to generate lather. That was a special circumstance, required by the brush, which I would get rid of in a heartbeat if I could get anything near what I paid for it out of it.

As it happens, Mitchell's is now accessible to everyone, due to the recent reformulation. It poses no more problems in lathering. All it cost them was the loss of goodwill by the members of the forums, their contract with Kent, and the loss of quite a bit of slickness in their lather.

If anyone here is unaware, MWF sent Kent 4,000 pucks of Kent branded pucks and told them it was the old tallow formula, and they were labelled as such. In reality, they were the new palm oil formula. Needless to say, Kent is now looking for a new soap manufacturer to make tallow pucks for them. One of the new boxes was opened by mistake, and Kent is offering an exchange for anyone who received one of the new pucks. They still have 500+ pucks of the tallow formula left. If you happen to own a puck of Kent batch #9265, contact them immediately for replacement.

 

[fhalden]

The only thing that I do differently in my normal routine is I generally don't need to add water to the puck to generate lather. That was a special circumstance, required by the brush, which I would get rid of in a heartbeat if I could get anything near what I paid for it out of it.

As it happens, Mitchell's is now accessible to everyone, due to the recent reformulation. It poses no more problems in lathering. All it cost them was the loss of goodwill by the members of the forums, their contract with Kent, and the loss of quite a bit of slickness in their lather.

If anyone here is unaware, MWF sent Kent 4,000 pucks of Kent branded pucks and told them it was the old tallow formula, and they were labelled as such. In reality, they were the new palm oil formula. Needless to say, Kent is now looking for a new soap manufacturer to make tallow pucks for them. One of the new boxes was opened by mistake, and Kent is offering an exchange for anyone who received one of the new pucks. They still have 500+ pucks of the tallow formula left. If you happen to own a puck of Kent batch #9265, contact them immediately for replacement.

I hope that the palm oil formulation works great for more people, but it is Mitchell's Wool Fat in name only. I will never run out of the original, so that's not a concern for me, and I look forward to trying the new formulation. Maybe it will be better, and I can sell all my old stuff to the folks who have already decided they will never touch the new stuff. There are always plenty of those folks.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

[PLANofMAN]

I hope that the palm oil formulation works great for more people, but it is Mitchell's Wool Fat in name only. I will never run out of the original, so that's not a concern for me, and I look forward to trying the new formulation. Maybe it will be better, and I can sell all my old stuff to the folks who have already decided they will never touch the new stuff. There are always plenty of those folks.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

From what I understand, it's a good/decent soap. Lathers easier than the original formula, not as slick, and tends to have more of a drying effect on the skin than the original formula. The scent is similar, with some notes being more prominent in the new formula, and the powdery soapy smell being much more subdued, replaced by a Nivea skin lotion type scent.

If one didn't know it had been reformulated, most people would probably chalk it up to typical variations between batches, with this particular batch being slightly sub-par.

I have a sample of the new formula incoming, so will be able to either confirm this or dispute it shortly.

Edit: I happen to dislike palm oil based soaps because of the drying effect, and have already stockpiled 13 pucks of the tallow formula. MWF has been my go to soap for years, and I'd say I used it about 50% of the time these past ten years or so. So take that bias into account when I review it.

 

[fhalden]

From what I understand, it's a good/decent soap. Lathers easier than the original formula, not as slick, and tends to have more of a drying effect on the skin than the original formula. The scent is similar, with some notes being more prominent in the new formula, and the powdery soapy smell being much more subdued, replaced by a Nivea skin lotion type scent.

If one didn't know it had been reformulated, most people would probably chalk it up to typical variations between batches, with this particular batch being slightly sub-par.

I have a sample of the new formula incoming, so will be able to either confirm this or dispute it shortly.

Edit: I happen to dislike palm oil based soaps because of the drying effect, and have already stockpiled 13 pucks of the tallow formula. MWF has been my go to soap for years, and I'd say I used it about 50% of the time these past ten years or so. So take that bias into account when I review it.

We're definitely in the same corner. I stocked up for life with the tallow formula too. Since the slickness, which is the best I've ever seen and my primary desire from a soap, is my main attraction to MWF, it's sounding like we were wise to stockpile.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

[PLANofMAN]

We're definitely in the same corner. I stocked up for life with the tallow formula too. Since the slickness, which is the best I've ever seen and my primary desire from a soap, is my main attraction to MWF, it's sounding like we were wise to stockpile.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

Two shaves in with the new formula. Tried it with the Rolls Razor, a straight razor and a Gillette Fatboy thus far. My preferred MWF brush, a custom Shavemac two-band D01, picks up soap a little too aggressively with the new formula, so I switched to a New Forest two-band. I will be trying a Trafalgar synthetic for the next shave.

The scent is more defined and layered. Not powdery. It does come across as more artificial. The 'soapy' smell is also gone. Replaced by a Nivea skin lotion type smell. Not bad, just different.

Lather longevity slightly declined.
Slickness declined
Cushion, slightly declined
Post shave, declined.
Scent, improved
Ease of lathering, improved

Overall, a strong soap. Decent. Post shave is not moisturizing at all, but you still do get the soft skin effect from the lanolin. The tallow Fat was so protective I could often skip a post shave aftershave. Not so with the new stuff.

The differences between the old and new formulation are minor if you shave with a DE. You won't notice a ton of difference.

If you shave with a straight razor, the differences are glaringly obvious, and the new formula is not the better of the two.

This is an ongoing testing, and I reserve the right to change my opinions if I get the new formula dialed in better.

 

[fhalden]

I'm looking forward to trying the new formula, but two words in your review, "Slickness declined" don't bode well. Thanks for all the detail!

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

[heysi]

I thought I was buying a pair of the old formula pucks....but what showed up is the new stuff instead. I'm not thrilled. And the "slickness declined" is not a good thing.

 

[Spider]

I thought I was buying a pair of the old formula pucks....but what showed up is the new stuff instead. I'm not thrilled. And the "slickness declined" is not a good thing.

I'm curious, do the new boxes still say Original 1893 Formula on them, or did they re-design the packaging?

 

[Luecke3262]

I'm curious, do the new boxes still say Original 1893 Formula on them, or did they re-design the packaging?

I ordered a new jar and puck of soap from Pasteur's back in March and it was still the original formula soap and it said so on the jar.

 

[heysi]

I'm curious, do the new boxes still say Original 1893 Formula on them, or did they re-design the packaging?

Yep....still says Original 1893 Formula. Its the ingredient list on the inside that says its either the tallow or the palm oil. The picture on their website showed the tallow.

 

[Spider]

The picture on their website showed the tallow.

That's a foul on the seller.

Yep....still says Original 1893 Formula.

But that's a huge foul on Mitchell's themselves!

 

[Luecke3262]

That's a foul on the seller.

But that's a huge foul on Mitchell's themselves!

Small flower shows both the photo and the ingredients list as the tallow version. You may contact them and see if it is indeed tallow before ordering.

 

[CBLindsay]

As a soap maker with a background in animal sciences, I am confused by the move AWAY from tallow that so many soap makers have made or plan to make. It is true that Palm oil is similar enough to tallow that it is often called 'vegan tallow', but "similar" isn't the "same" and the differences in my opinion are many and of great importance.

To start with, from an environmental/social impact stand point I find tallow FAR more abundant, sustainable and having a better net impact to the environment. I don't mean to turn this thread into a statement on the environmental or social impact of tallow/palm oil but I do think its an important consideration when marketing seems to suggest the move to palm oil is/was done because it is somehow better for the world.

I remember when palm oil (collected through mass deforestation) was very much frowned upon. Now, it seems through concerted efforts and great planning there are what amounts to palm oil farms...and THIS is a good thing for us all I would assume. So if the palm oil being used in soaps etc is indeed coming from these farms \rather than via mass deforestation that should be a good thing. Also, in terms of sustainability, farmed palm oil should be far better than many other VEGAN alternatives.

So I guess the implied message if not the out right assertion, is that tallow is either bad for us, bad for the environment or somehow less sustainable (because NONE of the soap makers making the change claim it is being done to improve performance). If we were talking about raising beef PURELY to obtain tallow for soap/cosmetics, I might be prepared to accept an argument that farmed palm oil is more environmentally friendly...but the truth is I don't know the true net impact of farming palm vs farming beef. Fortunately that is not the case, tallow is a byproduct of beef raised for food (meat/cheese/milk) as are other things like leather, instrument strings, manure/fertilizer/methane fuel, bone/bone meal and even INSULIN. In fact there are a great number of things we use everyday that have some connection to some part of a cow that had been raised for the purpose of feeding us in some way. TALLOW (beef fat) is used in a LOT of things besides soap (I'll let you look it up rather than try to impress you with my memory skills and/or ability to copy and paste from the internet). Perhaps the most important thing is as a civilization we raise and consume a lot of beef, and it doesn't look like that is going to change any time soon. AGAIN, I don't mean to say or imply our mass consumption of beef doesn't come with a massive impact on the environment. I am only pointing out that WHATEVER that environmental impact is, we gain a great number of benefits from it beyond a great rib eye or some fantastic tallow soap.

My guess is the switch to palm oil is being driven by economic motives. Perhaps there is just too much competition for tallow so by switching to palm oil they control costs and even out supply. I know tallow prices have gone WAY up, I can't speak to the pricing of palm oil because I have never purchased it. Whenever possible, I render my own tallow using fat from my local butcher (I would LOVE it if they rendered it for me), but I can't see a larger soap maker doing that.

The bigger issue for all of us who enjoy a good quality shaving soap is whether or not a palm oil based soap can be as good as a tallow based soap. In my opinion, based on my own experiences and preferences, I think tallow will always out perform palm oil ...BUT, it is possible some creative formulation would result in a really good soap. I think the fatty acid profile of tallow is more conducive to making a desirable soap without the need to either create a unique/complex formula or to use an additive.

**Disclaimer**
The purpose of my post us only to share my point of view, not to make some sort of political or environmental statement. I like a good tallow soap and I am sad to see so many trusted brands moving away from using tallow.

 

[pad_jim]

View attachment 101269

a bit off topic.. god damn that is a sexy brush handle. Is that one still beeing produced?

 

[pad_jim]

My guess is the switch to palm oil is being driven by economic motives. Perhaps there is just too much competition for tallow so by switching to palm oil they control costs and even out supply. I know tallow prices have gone WAY up, I can't speak to the pricing of palm oil because I have never purchased it. Whenever possible, I render my own tallow using fat from my local butcher (I would LOVE it if they rendered it for me), but I can't see a larger soap maker doing that.

I agree with that.
My local butcher does render the tallow once but I need to rerender it (which is easy compared to rendering it the first time) because he is not into "pure" tallow like I am. For the occasional frying of something or using it to coat the grill or using it as birdfeed etc., it does simply not matter if there are some small bits of animal left in there. It would be pretty funny to have a small piece of tendon to nibble on while shaving.. but that is just a bit too gross so I rerender it to get rid of all the bits and pieces.
Tallow does seem to have gotten way more expensive. I remember it just beeing given out bascially for free but now people pay quite the pretty penny for it - in small quantities. I'm not familiar with the prices of wholesale tallow from years ago but I can imagine the price shot up significantly.
Locally I pay like 4,88/kg or 2,22/pound; wholesale, what I found online, beef tallow goes for 240-500 USD/metric ton (UK distributor) and palmoil from the same distributor (beeing the most popular product in the palmoil category), produced in Malaysia, goes for 150 USD/metric ton. Both are 25 metric tons minimum order quantity. So 6k to 12,5k USD for the tallow or 3750 USD for the palm oil (without import taxes etc). I don't see how any larger soap company, already working with tighter margins because most people do not wanna pay alot more all of a sudden, can justify paying 1,6-3,33 times as much for "the same" soap performance. This also really shows when you look at any soap that claims to be a "olive oil" soap, beeing sold over the counter at the local drug store or supermarket. In my experience none have had Olive oil as their first ingredient - palmoil is the the number one contester.
It is funny to me that people think that a Vegan soap needs to be "good" for nature. If it is real soap, it mostly is just some palmoil soap with nice additives. This is the cheapest way and of course that is the way the economy moves. In my mind letting the tallow go to waste is way worse than using palm oil. Overproduction gets thrown away and that is just a waste of potential. That is besides the point and on the same lines as the previous speaker I wanna reiterate the disclaimer.
I like tallow soaps too. I have made vegan soaps as well and I like them as well. I have not experienced my tallow soaps to be exceptionally better than my "vegan" soaps but that might just be my soap formula.. so yeah. I miss the tallow version of Tabac because it had a different smell. Performance wise I like the tallow version a tad bit more but if the smell would be the same I doubt that I could really really tell a vegan soap with high stearic acid content apart from a tallow soap.

BUT back to MWF:
Where do you guys order your stack now?
Do you vacuum seal the pucks in order to preserve the smell?

 

[MilkCrate]

a bit off topic.. god damn that is a sexy brush handle. Is that one still beeing produced?

Thank you and I think it is still made. The maker is Paul at Trotter Handcrafts. He has a shop on Etsy.

 

[fhalden]

I'm not approaching the new formula with any preconceptions of Tallow vs. palm oil. The new formula may be better. If it's easier for a lot of people to lather, and is as slick, that's a step up. I'll definitely give it a try!

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

[PLANofMAN]

BUT back to MWF:
Where do you guys order your stack now?
Do you vacuum seal the pucks in order to preserve the smell?

Not usually. But yes, when I stock up on a soap. You can vacuum seal or use mylar bags and oxygen absorbers.
The U.K. is, as far as I know, dry. By that I mean out of tallow MWF/Kent.
Men's Room Barber Shop in the U.S. still has stock. Camwrap in the U.S. still has stock. A lot of places probably have stock... if you are willing to buy the dish with it.

Edit: I also bought a box of 12 Arko sticks. Those I'm not planning on vacuum sealing. I figure when I'm down to those in 25 years, the smell will be tolerable.

 

[pad_jim]

if you are willing to buy the dish with it.

from what I heard, the dishes are not really worth it anymore - they don't fit at all. But ey, I do not own one, so I can not tell.
Where I'm at the dish+soap goes for 3 refillpucks.

 

[PLANofMAN]

I'm not approaching the new formula with any preconceptions of Tallow vs. palm oil. The new formula may be better. If it's easier for a lot of people to lather, and is as slick, that's a step up. I'll definitely give it a try!

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

Can you take just one of those two things and be happy?

Unrelated. It's kind of odd seeing the juxtaposition of the two soaps. On the one side, a soap fit for a king, with the Queen's royal warrant on it. On the other side, a soap for the country man, who just needs a good soap, and it's the exact same soap.