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Convex Hones and Concave Bevels Discussion

Hello there, I'm new to this forum - I signed up specifically to get more info about this honing method, more than TSS already preaches and found out about TSC via watching the videos of @Bill M
This honing method, with the convexed stones to get a concave bevel is something new and exciting to me so I gave it a go and ordered the plate from TSS - heck in the end shaving is a fun hobby of learning and challenging yourself.

This is my experience so far:
My first shaping of a King 1k was an experience hahah.. trying to grind down a 1k stone with 400-600 grit paper seemed more of a challenge then I expected. Also it was pretty cheap paper.. nothing special or sturdy so I went to the store and got alox boned to linen (180 grit). In the end I was at it for 1h in total, after I mishaped the stone a bit (the middle was still somewhat flat).
I ordered 2 pretty untouched equal razors (ground from the same blank, 6/8) in order to put this method to the test. One I finished with my usual method (1k, 6k, slate with and without slurry) the other one I sharpened with convexed 1k (short axis of the TSS plate) 6k (long axis of the TSS plate) and finishing with the flat slate, as TSS recommended to me for starting out.
The normally honed razor shaved as expected. German hollow ground with a nice natural stone finish is what I enjoy the most these days. The concaved bevel razor shaved me the closest I have felt in a very long time.. maybe even the best I experienced so far (except for the ultra thin old razors I have.. those might have a concaved bevel already on them as I did only touch them up with the aforementioned slate).
From the small number of test I did so far, honing on convex stones is something else. I enjoy the auditive feedback the blade gives me when I strop on the hanging leather - it is noticably higher pitch then the non convex honed razor, even for people who are not into razors at all.
 
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Welcome to the Cadre @pad_jim
Great going on your work and progress
Let me know if there is any way I can help you along.

The abrasive sheets I used most were 80 grit silicon carbide. Search up Rhynowet Silicone Carbide.
On the more difficult stones I added 60 grit SIC powder.
I then went through a smoothing progression ending at 1500 grit automotive wet/dry.
Try shaping up some balsa blocks on the long dimension and charging them with an abrasive. Even the Herold pastes become game changers.

Have Fun!
 
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@Bill M what are you doing in order to freshen up the edge?
My bevel setter is still pretty convex but it does not give any of those deeper scratches anymore. I still went trough my progression and yes the razor still shaves pretty well. But.. how do I know where my scratches are?
Is there even a necessity to go back to the bevel setter or is my 6k convexed on the short axis with the following plane slate enough to keep it shaving - in your opinioin? I know, it comes down to preference but what would you suggest?
 
pad_jim said:
@Bill M what are you doing in order to freshen up the edge?
My bevel setter is still pretty convex but it does not give any of those deeper scratches anymore. I still went trough my progression and yes the razor still shaves pretty well. But.. how do I know where my scratches are?
Is there even a necessity to go back to the bevel setter or is my 6k convexed on the short axis with the following plane slate enough to keep it shaving - in your opinioin? I know, it comes down to preference but what would you suggest?
Click to expand...
Between shaves, I maintain with a 2x3x12 balsa bock with the 3” side shaped on the long dimension and leather doublestick cushion mounted to a similar balsa shaped on the short dimension. The balsa is loaded with 0.1µ cBN emulsion (KME CBN .1 Micron). I have tried some diamond emulsion at that grit but keep going back to Cubic Boron Nitride because I seem to be able to confirm the claim that it is smoother.

I would think the lack of the deep scratches indicates a smoothing on the surface of the stone. I find initial stone shaping to leave things a bit jagged even though I try to smooth up to 1500 wet/dry.

I always look for some sort of “tell” as to where the different radius cuts are hitting. I like to see them meet roughly in the middle of the bevel and will move back and forth on the different radius’ to hold that in a honing session. It was a bit harder to tell using synthetics and a glass but you can see different reflections. Off the stones and on the shaped balsa strop is where the best polish and pull shaping of the very edge happens. You can see incremental improvements on edge using a tomato, styrofoam, or polystyrene packing peanut. I have never had any luck with hair tests.

My synthetics are on a field trip currently, but if I remember seeing scratches was more difficult to judge than naturals. My last stone before the strop progression was always Naniwa 12K shaped in the long dimension. I do like the Suehiro 20k a bit more, but the Naniwa was hard to beat.

As far as slate goes, I have never used one. I see no reason not to use one as a last step though.

The ancient German Grinders Handbook outlines the last stone to be flat. I really need to get some experience there. I had Jarrod hone one of the new razors I bought that way and found that I preferred my own. One day I should take one of my 7/8 TI razors and give it a few light swipes on the flat side of my 20k.

Good luck
 
If you are not resetting a bevel then there's no need to go postal on the edge and for a refresh i do as i always have - an 8k Norton shaped long and a flat finisher, which can be a coticule, Naniwa, ILR, Arkansas etc - the finishing is about 10 laps at most. And stop! Strop on leather and rejoice!

Maintenance between shaves is where i use strops and pasted strops - the difference is that pasted strops remove metal and so increase the time between the need to revisit the stones. i use a diamond pasted balsa strop or if i feel the edge is already good, i just strop it again on leather, oil it and put it away.
The difference between diamond paste and CBN - both are expensive - is that the CBN has a very square crystalline structure and so the particles are the same size in much the same way that synthetic hones are the same grit throughout.

T
 
JPO said:
As you see in the video Bill, you just need to rotate the stone on the plate. Then you manually shape the diagonal "ridge lines" with sand paper. You have that fancy shaping plate. That would probably work better for this step. The final step is to use a concave dressing stone to either maintain, and/or do some final adjustments.
The honing is ideally a three step process. This just shows that this can also be quite simple if you do not need the extra flexibility. If you use a fast synthetic stone for the last step, you will probably end up with that shape overtaking the bevel. That is why i prefer to use a hard slow stone for that last step. Arkansas stones are perfect for this, in my option at least.
The stone used was a Les Lat hybrid coticule. The hybrid side was flat. My intention was just to show how i shape some of my stones. The honing part is probably covered much better by others.

Here is how you can calculate the shimming required to get the radius you are after. I probably ended up with a radius of about 4-5 meters.

View attachment 95903
Click to expand...
Late to the game, but thanks for the formula. Now I just need to work on a smooth transition on my first convex stone...
Regards Johan
 
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