The Grand PSF Fallacy

[Bogeyman]

...The whole REAL scientists thing is just silly. Different skin reacts differently to products, why do you think there are so many out there?...

Marketing obviously as it's a free market. Just as with automobiles, one needs to research and separate the "wheat from the chaff".

I (unfortunately) have atopic dermatitis, and the Dr's I visit have never said this or that is better because, REAL SCIENTISTS. They say, 'hey it sucks, but you're going to have to try a lot of stuff to see which ones agree with you and which don't.'...

That's because there is no "one shot" cure for your condition. The products you need are in a totally different spectrum than those needed by the average shaver.

Lots of products made by scientists also have a marketing dept. behind them. Just because a company has a big lab full of scientists doesn't meant the product is better...

They have to make a profit to stay in business, as I'm sure you know.

It's totally cool if you want to use a moisturizer as part of your post shave regimen, depending on the time of year I often do the same. But I that doesn't invalidate the work of hard working artisans making great products.

"Invalidate" is a strong term. As well, I don't use moisturizer as I don't need one. I am one of the lucky ones I guess.

 

[dangerousdon]

So...about them Saints?

 

[NurseDave]

So...about them Saints?

Post Sack Fumble?

 

[HMan]

Post Sack Fumble?

That's going to leave a bad post game feel.

 

[Majorrich]

Someone gets no juice box on the bus going home...

 

[beginish]

Now that I know what PSF stands for, my view is that it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks (whether scientist, soap maker, or ditch digger); all that counts is whether I like the soap or not.

I find myself agreeing with Sam. I think the vast majority of shave soaps and creams fall within a rather narrow range of post shave feel. For me, the outliers are obvious when I use them, precisely because they leave my face feeling different. Most shavers love MdC, but I can’t stand it precisely because it leaves my face feeling stripped of oils. But then, its formula is a pretty simple soap, so it’s not really that surprising in hindsight. Conversely, soaps that contain lanolin (MWF, Lea) feel noticeably better.

I tend not to read much into descriptions of PSF.

 

[CBLindsay]

Stearic acid used in almost all shaving soaps is comedogenic (pore clogging), therefore many shavers need to "strip", i.e., wash, that from their face with a top notch cleanser after the shave lest they break out. I use a salicylic acid cleanser as it not only strips the soap, it also chemically exfoliates as well thereby preventing ingrown hairs.

My biggest "beef" with the PSF crowd is that they essentially "black ball" any soap that does not have what they deem "elite" level PSF when but a year or so ago this PSF BS was not even on the radar and IMO it all began with one particular Youtube reviewer and has "snowballed" into absurdity. Why is it absurd? Because (as I mentioned in my initial post) for a few $$ you can go buy a REAL moisturizer made by REAL scientists that gives far better results than anything an artisan soap maker can dream of. They call it S C I E N C E. If you've ever taken an antibiotic it probably saved your life.

I’m not entirely sure you are understanding how soap is made and what the ingredient list being provided is telling you. Stearic acid is in fact in all/every shaving soap, it is the acid that when saponified makes the lather we expect to get when take brush to puck. The source of stearic acid might be veggie or animal but it’s in there and in total it’s probably 50% or more of the soaps formula. In most cases the stearic acid is completely saponified (turned to soap through exposure to either sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide), but different artisans might allow some stearic acid to remain in the finished product. As you point out, stearic acid can be a bit harsh so it isn’t usually something you want to leave in the soap unless.

It is true, many good shave soaps have Shea butter or some other “butter” in them. Heck, there a ton of things added to soaps these days. And true, there is a lot of talk about how the butters and additives do this or that. What the ingredient list does not you is how/when those additives are added...and I think that has a heavy influence on the way the product performs and feels (good or bad, that’s a matter of personal interpretation). You mention a YouTube reviewer acting as if he/she was an authority on post shave feel and what soap was and was not elite ...I agree with you, that’s absurd.

I do want to mention, making soap IS science. The science is fairly basic (pun intended) but it allows for a lot of experimentation and with careful research and attention it is possible to plan for specific outcomes and make them happen. The gentleman that makes grooming department soap has made more than 120 iterations of his soap to get what he wants. I actually have a science degree and laboratory experience that has gone far to help me understand technical journals and to develop formulas I have.

Bottom line...I agree with what I think you’re saying, that there is a growing amount of hype and window dressing in the name of post shave feel. I view many additives with a skeptical eye, seeing them more as label candy than as having any significant value ...but I don’t begrudge anyone the enjoyment they might get from those products.

 

[Bogeyman]

...The gentleman that makes grooming department soap has made more than 120 iterations of his soap to get what he wants. I actually have a science degree and laboratory experience that has gone far to help me understand technical journals and to develop formulas I have...

The fella at GD is a software engineer I believe, or at least have heard.

Bottom line...I agree with what I think you’re saying, that there is a growing amount of hype and window dressing in the name of post shave feel. I view many additives with a skeptical eye, seeing them more as label candy than as having any significant value ...but I don’t begrudge anyone the enjoyment they might get from those products.

Thank you. I don't begrudge them either. I just hate to see people convinced of something that really isn't what they think it is. The senses easily fool the unwary soul.

As regards the Saints, the NFL lost me when "kneelers" took front & center.