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The Grand PSF Fallacy

Bogeyman

Bogeyman

Shave Member
IMO, it is the biggest fraud perpetrated upon hapless wet shavers for several reasons, Foremost is the current rage that it is just simply better for your skin which is total BS according to science. You should not be able to feel a good moisturizer according to dermatologists. I tend to trust dermatologists (at least those not peddling their own proprietary goods that is) over any artisan maker unschooled in hard science. Loading a soap up with tons of butters that merely lay on the surface of the skin is not moisturizing. You may as well smear lard on.


A moisturizer should never, ever feel oily. "A great moisturizer should make your skin feel hydrated, not oily. It should absorb, leaving a clean finish, and not just sit on top of the skin. It should allow you to layer makeup on top of it without pilling up. Immediately, the skin should look plumped and fine lines should look softened if the product is truly moisturizing your skin. With consistent use of a moisturizer, the skin barrier will be better repaired, so overall the skin should be less irritable and sensitive. Good moisturizers can also normalize oil production, meaning if you are oily in patches, they should become more even throughout." —Annie Chiu, a dermatologist in North Redondo Beach, California
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Most importantly:

You shouldn't be able to feel it. "A good moisturizer should absorb right into the skin and relieve any tightness or dryness. It should be lightweight so you can't feel it as a distinct layer on the skin." —Lotika Singh, a dermatologist in New York City
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In other words. you can go to Walmart, Target, etc., and spend approx. $15 for a top notch moisturizer by CeraVe, Neutrogena, L'Oreal, etc., that is LIGHT YEARS ahead of any shave butter infused artisan soap that make "snake oil" claims. As well, it has decades of research costing tens of millions of dollars by hordes of organic chemists in NASA spec labs.

Don't confuse a "greasy face" with properly moisturized. Don't overlook shaving soaps/creams that may be spectacular for what they are designed to do, i.e., shaving, because some shill says the PSF is garbage. :rolleyes:

This PSF BS is out of hand.


Source: Top Dermatologists Explain How Great Moisturizers Should Actually Feel on Your Skin
 
Hmmm... not sure I agree with this....

I’ve used some great soaps that have a much better post shave feel, than using an average soap with a good moisturizer afterwards.
 
All that’s missing is the moisturizer ad right next to the wall of facts! :ROFLMAO:

Oh wait...there it is!

BC4B222E-C69A-4AE2-9749-886DCD7AE7DC.jpeg

I don’t think anything in the article relates to shaving soaps or aftershaves, it’s talking purely about moisturizers. I also don’t see anyone in shaving posts (well most) going gaga about their a greasy face. We’re working on some serious hyperbole here.

Let’s face it...most men don’t take care of themselves and would probably feel like they had better skin if they simply washed their face more often, traditional shavers or not. Most men sure as heck wouldn’t be caught dead with anything that says “moisturizer” on it.

What can I say, the hardware and software I use has worked for me. I never really paid attention to what the artisan/mass production company says, I’m sure some tout miraculous formulas, I look mostly at three things - scent, price, and word of mouth. I rarely use moisturizers on my face at all anymore. I used to used them all the time before traditional shaving.

For me, post shave feel isn’t just from the soap, it’s the process and proper usage/technique, it’s cumulative. I don’t think it’s entirely a placebo effect, but sure, take all sales pitches with a grain of salt.
 
For me, soaps differentiate themselves in two ways.... slickness and PSF. Few do well in both. But those that do are my absolute favorites! CBL is definitely tops when it comes to excelling at both!
 
Not sure what this is all about personally. I’ve seen people complain when their face feels oily after use of any shaving product. Usually when moisturizing is referred to it’s in contrast to a dry feeling after using a subpar soap that strips oils from the face and leaves a dry feeling for the day. Which you would expect after applying a soap and washing it off 2-3 times or more if it didn’t have any moisturizing properties.
 
NurseDave said:
Not sure what this is all about personally. I’ve seen people complain when their face feels oily after use of any shaving product. Usually when moisturizing is referred to it’s in contrast to a dry feeling after using a subpar soap that strips oils from the face and leaves a dry feeling for the day. Which you would expect after applying a soap and washing it off 2-3 times or more if it didn’t have any moisturizing properties.
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This is pretty much exactly how I think about post shave feel. I'm looking at does my face feel dried out after the shave or does it feel like healthy skin. Do I still use soaps t hff at dont have a great Post shave feel? Yes, as long as they perform well in other areas. For me slickness is the #1 most important factor in whether or not I like a soap. Beyond that it's all about what make the overall experience better.

And if I ever used a soap that left my face feeling oily it'd go right in the garbage. I have enough issues with my natural oils.
 
After finding out what PSF even meant....

Bingo @NurseDave @uacowboy I'm sure the OP really means that subgroup of aficionados that think the more oils the better, but honestly the whole root of the idea is in just not having your face feel like it was attacked with a cheese grater post shave.

I've got a couple of those super oily soaps, often regarded as elite, but I can't use them too often or I break out. My favorite soaps, feel almost transparent to my face. For sure I've noticed that I'm going back towards the makers with less stuff in them.
 
Bogeyman said:
Sometimes I wish I had never gone to college. I give up. :rolleyes:
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Oh, you went to college.................well that's different, I'll believe EVERYTHING you post now. :rolleyes::LOL:

Your rant about PSF is based on assuming when the term is used it means a layer on the skin is felt verses just that there isn't a drying face feel as if it has been stripped of moisturization as @NurseDave and @uacowboy stated. I can't stand an oily feeling of a layer on my skin, but I like the soaps I have that have a nice post shave feel, basically the way my skin felt before the shave but without stubble. Peace, out
 
NurseDave said:
Not sure what this is all about personally. I’ve seen people complain when their face feels oily after use of any shaving product. Usually when moisturizing is referred to it’s in contrast to a dry feeling after using a subpar soap that strips oils from the face and leaves a dry feeling for the day. Which you would expect after applying a soap and washing it off 2-3 times or more if it didn’t have any moisturizing properties.
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BOOM!!! and

uacowboy said:
This is pretty much exactly how I think about post shave feel. I'm looking at does my face feel dried out after the shave or does it feel like healthy skin. Do I still use soaps t hff at dont have a great Post shave feel? Yes, as long as they perform well in other areas. For me slickness is the #1 most important factor in whether or not I like a soap. Beyond that it's all about what make the overall experience better.

And if I ever used a soap that left my face feeling oily it'd go right in the garbage. I have enough issues with my natural oils.
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This^^^^^

Couldn't agree more guys.

I will add that I hate most aftershave balms because most of them leave my face feeling oily. That and I start to sweat a lot...most likely from my skin suffocating from my skin being oily.

I understand what the OP is saying...but honestly, I have more issue with certain ingredients that are not great for the body in general.
 
Stearic acid used in almost all shaving soaps is comedogenic (pore clogging), therefore many shavers need to "strip", i.e., wash, that from their face with a top notch cleanser after the shave lest they break out. I use a salicylic acid cleanser as it not only strips the soap, it also chemically exfoliates as well thereby preventing ingrown hairs.

My biggest "beef" with the PSF crowd is that they essentially "black ball" any soap that does not have what they deem "elite" level PSF when but a year or so ago this PSF BS was not even on the radar and IMO it all began with one particular Youtube reviewer and has "snowballed" into absurdity. Why is it absurd? Because (as I mentioned in my initial post) for a few $$ you can go buy a REAL moisturizer made by REAL scientists that gives far better results than anything an artisan soap maker can dream of. They call it S C I E N C E. If you've ever taken an antibiotic it probably saved your life. ;)
 
A year ago? Post shave feel has been a thing since I started shaving.

The whole REAL scientists thing is just silly. Different skin reacts differently to products, why do you think there are so many out there? I (unfortunately) have atopic dermatitis, and the Dr's I visit have never said this or that is better because, REAL SCIENTISTS. They say, 'hey it sucks, but you're going to have to try a lot of stuff to see which ones agree with you and which don't.'

Lots of products made by scientists also have a marketing dept. behind them. Just because a company has a big lab full of scientists doesn't meant the product is better. I've tried a lot of fancy expensive stuff that doesn't work for me AT ALL. And found great products, made by artisans that do.

It's totally cool if you want to use a moisturizer as part of your post shave regimen, depending on the time of year I often do the same. But I that doesn't invalidate the work of hard working artisans making great products.
 
Now that I know what PSF stands for, my view is that it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks (whether scientist, soap maker, or ditch digger); all that counts is whether I like the soap or not.
 
Bogeyman said:
My biggest "beef" with the PSF crowd is that they essentially "black ball" any soap that does not have what they deem "elite" level PSF
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I've blackballed soaps for less. We are all free to use whatever we want. I don't see the issue here.

Bogeyman said:
a year or so ago this PSF BS was not even on the radar
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I've been all about soaps that give me a good PSF ever since my first use of Mystic Water Soap in 2011. I was amazed at how much better my skin felt after using MW.

And why wouldn't I want to chase PSF? All things being equal, if one soap makes my skin feel better, I'm going to use that one. I'd rather not add another product to my regimen just to give me that feeling. Again, I fail to see what the issue with this is.
 
I have sensitive skin. I also have eczema. Prior to getting into wetshaving I barely ever shaved. It left my face feeling raw for hours. Learning to shave properly with proper hydration prior to the shave, using plenty of water during the shave, using a good soap, etc. has made a real difference. Anything that makes my skin feel good after shaving is good in my book. Post-Shave Feel is really important to me. I use more product post-shave than I do pre-shave or during the shave. Some things work well for me, some things don't.

HMan said:
The whole REAL scientists thing is just silly. Different skin reacts differently to products, why do you think there are so many out there? I (unfortunately) have atopic dermatitis, and the Dr's I visit have never said this or that is better because, REAL SCIENTISTS. They say, 'hey it sucks, but you're going to have to try a lot of stuff to see which ones agree with you and which don't.'

Lots of products made by scientists also have a marketing dept. behind them. Just because a company has a big lab full of scientists doesn't meant the product is better. I've tried a lot of fancy expensive stuff that doesn't work for me AT ALL. And found great products, made by artisans that do.
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+1 to these comments. I have had a similar experience with my Dermatologist.

At the end of the day it is all YMMV. Use what you like. Use what works for you. Ignore the influencers if they annoy you. Try all the products, even the ones that others "black ball." It is just shaving after all. There is no reason to get your blood pressure up. We do this because it makes us happy and feel good. I would prefer that we keep it that way.
 
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