Hello Gentlemen
So I've come into a problem and I want to always be totally transparent with all my customers and sometimes I think it is best to get opinions from customers or potential customers so this is why I'm conducting this brief poll.
Here is my issue and my solution to the issue. So anyone who has one of my Shave soaps knows the plastic jar it comes in is a little more costly than the jar most soaps come in which are 100mm low profile jars and made of HDPE and are very inexpensive to buy especially if bought in larger numbers. I made a decision a while back that I wanted to be in a different jar and that hasn't changed so please I ask of you to not try to convince me that packaging doesn't matter to you and why don't I just use what most companies use since they are so easy to get. I have to feel good about what my products go in and the way it represents the ETHOS brand and I'll thank you ahead of time for responding with that in mind.
So currently I'm using a Styrene clear plastic jar that slightly resembles the MDC jar as that is what I wanted to use and MDC was at the time kind enough to share the company that they get their current jars from. The problem at the time wasn't the jar as I got a decent price from the manufacture as these jars are not cheap at all as they are made of PETG Crystalline plastic and are heavy duty and yet look very much like glass. Mine jars are close but when put side by side you can see and feel the difference.
Here is my problem as you all probably know soap is heated up to high tempatures and in the process I've had many of them crack because Styrene is very brittle so not only is it a major PITA to have to scoop out the soap and put it in a good jar but it wastes a lot of time as well where I could be working on other products, filling orders etc. This last batch was the worst ever and so many more cracked than before so I have my work cut out for me to transfer all the soap that were is a jar that cracked to one that doesn't have one. I've also had a few customers have their jar crack in transit to them especially before I started to put a " Fragile Handle With Care " sticker on each package I ship out now but I know that if dropped on lets say a tile floor it could crack easily. Now the good news is it is the nature of the Styrene plastic to crack but the crack doesn't go all the way through to were is reaches the product inside. It's just a surface crack but to me it doesn't look good and some cracks are worse than others.
So I'm at a point where I've made a decision to change jars as I'm beginning to run low and I'm going to need to order more jars and I have 3 choices and 3 choices only.
1. Is the exact same jar that MDC comes in which I can now get in the USA as one company is carrying it but the cost is more than 4 times what I'm paying for my current jars. So if I were to switch to these jars with the cost of them and the cost of my ingredients I'd be forced to increase the price of my soaps by no less then $2.00 to $3.00 a jar and that would be with me absorbing some of the cost at mine end. So for example the Lavender Supreme shave soap that is currently $36 a jar now would go up to $38 to $39 a jar. This is just taking in the increased cost of the jar. As you may have notice a lot of things have gone up in price. Meats and other food items and I'm sure it's because of what this country has gone through but its happening across the boards as ingredients and packaging have also gone up right across the boards so who knows where that's going and how that will effect the price of products moving forward. So if I go with the Crystalline PETG jar prices will go up but so will the quality of the jars my products come in but still in plastic.
2. The other option is to put my product in Glass. it is impossible to find a jar that is the same low profile jar with a 89/400 opening which is what I'm using now and for reference what MDC also used to use back a couple of years ago. I can get a better price on them than the plastic PETG jar but again these can not be found in the USA but in Italy. My big challenge is the shipping to the USA as the company only ships Fedex air which brings the cost to more than double what the jar costs. The CBD company I do R&D for is a world wide company and they ship all over. If I go through them they can issue out a pick up and it can be shipped by a cargo ship which is less expensive but does take longer to get here but since my Dragonsbeard soap is next in line and comes in a completely different jar I have the time to wait for them to get here. I've always liked the idea of my products being in glass as its a much more staple environment for all the natural ingredients I use in my products. The price of a glass jar will also increase the price of my soaps by $2.00 as I've done the math and that's saying I can get it here through cheaper shipping. If not it' would be even more expensive than the PETG jar I mentioned above.
3. The other option I have is using a natural Polypropylene jar which is the exact same jar as mine which comes in this different plastic. It looks different as is is a natural finish which looks kind of frosted so you can see through it but it's not crystal clear. The price is the same as the jars I'm currently using so it would not effect the price of the shave soaps but it still has to be tested with heat. I'm not as crazy about the way it looks but with the brushed aluminum lids that are on my jars which btw are also not cheap but gives the jar a better look than if I used the matching lid you can get for it in ether black, white or the natural finish like the jar which to me doesn't fit the image of the company as well as the Glass or PETG
So some pros and cons
1. Glass will cost more to ship to my customers based on weight so this will add to the price shipped.
2. The PETG plastic jars are a bit heavier than my current jars but I don't think it will add a big noticeable difference in shipping compared to the glass jar.
3. Plastic jar if dropped will probably stand a much better chance of not breaking than a glass jar.
4. Glass jar is better for the environment.
5. Organic ingredients are more stable in glass than plastic but I do use a organic preservative in all my soaps to help prevent micro-bacterial action from taking place.
6. My prices will go up with either jar there is no way around that as these are the only two options I have right now and who knows maybe some other options will open up in the future. Also and I'd like to add these comments on the price of my products that came from other members/customers that are on here and another site I belong to. This is what they are saying to me when I asked them their opinions on the subject a few days ago before I made the decision to do a poll which was suggested by my son and another member. So this is what I got from them " Frank you are using much more expensive ingredients than the big 3 import soaps that cost over $45 and up to $70 per puck so why can't an a USA made soap command the prices that reflect the ingredients used in your products. Remember Frank there is one US soap company who is using very high end packaging whose prices start at $180 for a set and go all the way up to $700 so I think your prices are not high at all for the quality of your products and the ingredients you use in them.
8. Also some of you may suggest Aluminum but I've already checked that and there are no large enough jars sold in the USA and the price is up there with the PTEG plastic jar so no savings there and with Aluminum I've seen yellow spots sometimes form on the soap and in a couple of cases I've had to take my soap out and put it in another jar to prevent it from getting any worse so my least favorite of the options I have. I even looked into ceramic jars and they are just stupid expensive.
9. The Polypropylene jar if it passes the heat test would be the least expensive option but I believe it represents the brand not as well as the other 2 options of the Glass or PETG jar does.
Ok so there you have it.
I'd like to here votes and reasons for your vote for either plastic or Glass and plastic PETG or the less expensive Polypropylene jars
Thank you all as I feel confident I'll get some good input and I know that ultimately it's my decision but you all may help me make up my mind and maybe even offer an alternative I've not even thought of.
BTW I will post up photos of all the jars I've mentioned along with the jar I'm using now so you can see then within the next hour or so. An please forgive me if I don't respond right away to post as I'm working and may not be able to stop but I will address them all when I get home from work or I have some spare time at work.
Frank
So I've come into a problem and I want to always be totally transparent with all my customers and sometimes I think it is best to get opinions from customers or potential customers so this is why I'm conducting this brief poll.
Here is my issue and my solution to the issue. So anyone who has one of my Shave soaps knows the plastic jar it comes in is a little more costly than the jar most soaps come in which are 100mm low profile jars and made of HDPE and are very inexpensive to buy especially if bought in larger numbers. I made a decision a while back that I wanted to be in a different jar and that hasn't changed so please I ask of you to not try to convince me that packaging doesn't matter to you and why don't I just use what most companies use since they are so easy to get. I have to feel good about what my products go in and the way it represents the ETHOS brand and I'll thank you ahead of time for responding with that in mind.
So currently I'm using a Styrene clear plastic jar that slightly resembles the MDC jar as that is what I wanted to use and MDC was at the time kind enough to share the company that they get their current jars from. The problem at the time wasn't the jar as I got a decent price from the manufacture as these jars are not cheap at all as they are made of PETG Crystalline plastic and are heavy duty and yet look very much like glass. Mine jars are close but when put side by side you can see and feel the difference.
Here is my problem as you all probably know soap is heated up to high tempatures and in the process I've had many of them crack because Styrene is very brittle so not only is it a major PITA to have to scoop out the soap and put it in a good jar but it wastes a lot of time as well where I could be working on other products, filling orders etc. This last batch was the worst ever and so many more cracked than before so I have my work cut out for me to transfer all the soap that were is a jar that cracked to one that doesn't have one. I've also had a few customers have their jar crack in transit to them especially before I started to put a " Fragile Handle With Care " sticker on each package I ship out now but I know that if dropped on lets say a tile floor it could crack easily. Now the good news is it is the nature of the Styrene plastic to crack but the crack doesn't go all the way through to were is reaches the product inside. It's just a surface crack but to me it doesn't look good and some cracks are worse than others.
So I'm at a point where I've made a decision to change jars as I'm beginning to run low and I'm going to need to order more jars and I have 3 choices and 3 choices only.
1. Is the exact same jar that MDC comes in which I can now get in the USA as one company is carrying it but the cost is more than 4 times what I'm paying for my current jars. So if I were to switch to these jars with the cost of them and the cost of my ingredients I'd be forced to increase the price of my soaps by no less then $2.00 to $3.00 a jar and that would be with me absorbing some of the cost at mine end. So for example the Lavender Supreme shave soap that is currently $36 a jar now would go up to $38 to $39 a jar. This is just taking in the increased cost of the jar. As you may have notice a lot of things have gone up in price. Meats and other food items and I'm sure it's because of what this country has gone through but its happening across the boards as ingredients and packaging have also gone up right across the boards so who knows where that's going and how that will effect the price of products moving forward. So if I go with the Crystalline PETG jar prices will go up but so will the quality of the jars my products come in but still in plastic.
2. The other option is to put my product in Glass. it is impossible to find a jar that is the same low profile jar with a 89/400 opening which is what I'm using now and for reference what MDC also used to use back a couple of years ago. I can get a better price on them than the plastic PETG jar but again these can not be found in the USA but in Italy. My big challenge is the shipping to the USA as the company only ships Fedex air which brings the cost to more than double what the jar costs. The CBD company I do R&D for is a world wide company and they ship all over. If I go through them they can issue out a pick up and it can be shipped by a cargo ship which is less expensive but does take longer to get here but since my Dragonsbeard soap is next in line and comes in a completely different jar I have the time to wait for them to get here. I've always liked the idea of my products being in glass as its a much more staple environment for all the natural ingredients I use in my products. The price of a glass jar will also increase the price of my soaps by $2.00 as I've done the math and that's saying I can get it here through cheaper shipping. If not it' would be even more expensive than the PETG jar I mentioned above.
3. The other option I have is using a natural Polypropylene jar which is the exact same jar as mine which comes in this different plastic. It looks different as is is a natural finish which looks kind of frosted so you can see through it but it's not crystal clear. The price is the same as the jars I'm currently using so it would not effect the price of the shave soaps but it still has to be tested with heat. I'm not as crazy about the way it looks but with the brushed aluminum lids that are on my jars which btw are also not cheap but gives the jar a better look than if I used the matching lid you can get for it in ether black, white or the natural finish like the jar which to me doesn't fit the image of the company as well as the Glass or PETG
So some pros and cons
1. Glass will cost more to ship to my customers based on weight so this will add to the price shipped.
2. The PETG plastic jars are a bit heavier than my current jars but I don't think it will add a big noticeable difference in shipping compared to the glass jar.
3. Plastic jar if dropped will probably stand a much better chance of not breaking than a glass jar.
4. Glass jar is better for the environment.
5. Organic ingredients are more stable in glass than plastic but I do use a organic preservative in all my soaps to help prevent micro-bacterial action from taking place.
6. My prices will go up with either jar there is no way around that as these are the only two options I have right now and who knows maybe some other options will open up in the future. Also and I'd like to add these comments on the price of my products that came from other members/customers that are on here and another site I belong to. This is what they are saying to me when I asked them their opinions on the subject a few days ago before I made the decision to do a poll which was suggested by my son and another member. So this is what I got from them " Frank you are using much more expensive ingredients than the big 3 import soaps that cost over $45 and up to $70 per puck so why can't an a USA made soap command the prices that reflect the ingredients used in your products. Remember Frank there is one US soap company who is using very high end packaging whose prices start at $180 for a set and go all the way up to $700 so I think your prices are not high at all for the quality of your products and the ingredients you use in them.
8. Also some of you may suggest Aluminum but I've already checked that and there are no large enough jars sold in the USA and the price is up there with the PTEG plastic jar so no savings there and with Aluminum I've seen yellow spots sometimes form on the soap and in a couple of cases I've had to take my soap out and put it in another jar to prevent it from getting any worse so my least favorite of the options I have. I even looked into ceramic jars and they are just stupid expensive.
9. The Polypropylene jar if it passes the heat test would be the least expensive option but I believe it represents the brand not as well as the other 2 options of the Glass or PETG jar does.
Ok so there you have it.
I'd like to here votes and reasons for your vote for either plastic or Glass and plastic PETG or the less expensive Polypropylene jars
Thank you all as I feel confident I'll get some good input and I know that ultimately it's my decision but you all may help me make up my mind and maybe even offer an alternative I've not even thought of.
BTW I will post up photos of all the jars I've mentioned along with the jar I'm using now so you can see then within the next hour or so. An please forgive me if I don't respond right away to post as I'm working and may not be able to stop but I will address them all when I get home from work or I have some spare time at work.
Frank
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