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Mid-range Stone(s)?

Smattayu

Smattayu

"The TSC's Comic Book Savant"
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I’ve been getting back into honing lately, and have run into a minor issue. I’ve been using a Norton 4/8k combo stone for my mid range work since I started, and think it’s time for an upgrade. The Norton’s are perfectly serviceable stones and I would recommend them to anyone getting started, but I have a couple of minor issues with them.

1. I’m more interested in a spray and go stone right now. The soaking requirement of the 4K is just a little more clutter and hassle than I want to deal with.
2. Both Norton stones load up and clog so fast that I’m dressing both a couple times during each session. Much more so with the 4k.

I’m not looking for anything specific, and have even considered getting a soft and hard Arkie to do the job, but I figured I’d jump in here to see if anyone wanted to weigh in with their preferences.
 
I use a Coticule for my mid range work. I prefer the edges when using a natural stone. Currently considering a Jnat from Alex Gillmore for midrange but they are so expensive

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Naniwas are splash 'n go. That's what I use, but I don't have anything else to compare them to.
 
So far using a Coti with slurry has been a fantastic mid range for me. just start with a thick slurry and slowly dilute it.
 
Thanks guys! I hadn’t considered using a coti for midrange work. I have a bout that I’ve played around with, but I think a BBW would actually be just what I’m looking for. At about half the price of a regular coti that might fit the bill nicely. I’ve got several natural finishers at this point, so all naturals after the bevel set appeals to me.
 
Smattayu said:
Thanks guys! I hadn’t considered using a coti for midrange work. I have a bout that I’ve played around with, but I think a BBW would actually be just what I’m looking for. At about half the price of a regular coti that might fit the bill nicely. I’ve got several natural finishers at this point, so all naturals after the bevel set appeals to me.
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I used my belgian blue As a bevel setter with a thick slurry on it. worked really well. I will have to try skipping the regular coti and going straight from that to my finisher and see how that edge is. The one i have was still really rough when i got it but after an hour with a dmt i got it nice and flat/smooth and it works great. Much faster cutting than a regular coti though so be aware of that.
 
I used to use the Naniwa stones for my mids but I found myself lapping them a lot and they seemed to load quickly.
I switched to Shapton pro ceramic stones at the suggestion of my mentor and couldn't be happier. They cut so much faster, load less, and last much longer between needing to lap them.
Full disclosure, I bought the Japanese branded from amazon for about half the price of the shapton branded. Same stone just a lot cheaper.
 
I considered switching to Shaptons at one point, but I hone so infrequently, it doesn't make sense for me to spend the $$. And I'm not curious enough to make the switch. It's all chicken, you know . . . .
 
If you search the web (and other forums) you generally find that people poo poo the Belgian Blues in general. Most will say something along the lines of “why use an inferior stone when you have and can use the superior coti and get better results”. I will tell you the same as @uacowboy has found, I have used the BBW (mostly the vintage that are naturally attached to vintage Coti) on my razors and get incredible results. I will go so far as to say a BBW is as capable as a Coti if used right. The main difference is that BBW have larger garnet particles and often more “stone” to garnet. The potential for deeper cuts is there but the shape of the garnet is more rounded so it cuts different. Careful with the heavy slurry, too long on heavy slurry and you go backwards. I found that if you dress the BBW then run water on it and use semi-firm pressure and do your typical honing strokes with an old razor to “knock lose” any stray particles like you would a barber hone or like you would prepare an ark THEN hone one the BBW under running water (I use modest pressure at first and lighten up as I go) the BBW can work as a great mid-range or even a finisher depending on the stone. BBW’s leave the edge feeling much sharper to me than the Coti so I will often use the BBW between stones as a transition and finish on the Coti for the smoothness.

I have several stones on hand, once I dig them out I can send you one that has both BBW and Coti so you can play with the combo to see how it works for you. I am limited on slurry stones Though
 
Brew said:
I considered switching to Shaptons at one point, but I hone so infrequently, it doesn't make sense for me to spend the $$. And I'm not curious enough to make the switch. It's all chicken, you know . . . .
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That's definitely not a bad thing. The Naniwa stones are great stones. They definitely served me well while I learned and used them. It just got to the point I was honing a lot and my Naniwas that were used when I got them were really getting worn.
For me at the time the Shapton was a better choice for a replacement.

One thing about the two stones is that the Shapton cut quicker, so it is easier to over do a step and it shows a bad stroke more than the Naniwa do. I'm actually glad I had the Naniwa for learning since I have such poor feeling in my hands and get heavy handed as a result. I had more time to realize and adjust.
 
Smattayu said:
Thanks guys! I hadn’t considered using a coti for midrange work. I have a bout that I’ve played around with, but I think a BBW would actually be just what I’m looking for. At about half the price of a regular coti that might fit the bill nicely. I’ve got several natural finishers at this point, so all naturals after the bevel set appeals to me.
Click to expand...

Try to find a La Veinette, I have a natural combo BBW/La Veinette and it's a great stone. Yes they are hard to find.
 
CBLindsay said:
If you search the web (and other forums) you generally find that people poo poo the Belgian Blues in general. Most will say something along the lines of “why use an inferior stone when you have and can use the superior coti and get better results”. I will tell you the same as @uacowboy has found, I have used the BBW (mostly the vintage that are naturally attached to vintage Coti) on my razors and get incredible results. I will go so far as to say a BBW is as capable as a Coti if used right. The main difference is that BBW have larger garnet particles and often more “stone” to garnet. The potential for deeper cuts is there but the shape of the garnet is more rounded so it cuts different. Careful with the heavy slurry, too long on heavy slurry and you go backwards. I found that if you dress the BBW then run water on it and use semi-firm pressure and do your typical honing strokes with an old razor to “knock lose” any stray particles like you would a barber hone or like you would prepare an ark THEN hone one the BBW under running water (I use modest pressure at first and lighten up as I go) the BBW can work as a great mid-range or even a finisher depending on the stone. BBW’s leave the edge feeling much sharper to me than the Coti so I will often use the BBW between stones as a transition and finish on the Coti for the smoothness.

I have several stones on hand, once I dig them out I can send you one that has both BBW and Coti so you can play with the combo to see how it works for you. I am limited on slurry stones Though
Click to expand...

That would be great, thanks Chris! I’d love a chance to try one before pulling the trigger.
 
I was thinking of refreshing my stores of lapping film, just to have it on hand for easy, consistent results, but wow! It costs almost 3x what I paid for it the last time I bought some. I really like the stuff, but have to take a hard pass on it at those prices. Might have to do some digging to see if it can be found at something resembling reasonable.
 
The price has really gone up, I guess due to popularity. You may try the bay, but it’s not super cheap anymore.
 
MilkCrate said:
The price has really gone up, I guess due to popularity. You may try the bay, but it’s not super cheap anymore.
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I found a couple places where the prices are closer to what I'm used to, though two require a 5 sheet order. That's not too bad since the stuff keeps forever and it'll get used eventually. Might as well buy in bulk before the prices get any worse. I still need to find the remains of my old stash to see what I have left. It appears to have disappeared in the move.
 
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