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Mentor Me Through an In-Person SR Shave?

Bill M said:
@pipingtenor2570
Hi Scott:

I have 5 principles I suggest new shavers to build techniques on using any type of hardware, but especially so in straights.
1) Sharp Steel
2) Slick Soap
3) Lowest Angle
4) Lightest touch
5) Stretch the skin

Find a good balance these things and ultimately you will be successful. Make very sure that you chase comfort first and allow closeness to develop naturally over time.

I learned to shave under multiple disciplines where the main rule was to use exactly the same hardware and software repeatedly for a whole month. I don’t see that sort of thing around as much anymore but at that time there was 30-50 guys all cataloging their progress together in one single group. It was fun to see how everyone was progressing.

If you have not done so already, do take @BarberDave up on the Zoom style offer. I have always considered him to have a highly refined skillset that many can learn from.
I’m not sure if you have established a journal yet but it can be another great learning tool. You catalog your experience, progress and others can drop by with their input. Tag me in if you start one.

Good luck and have fun.
Bill
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Bill,
This is excellent advice throughout. Thank you for taking time to share these thoughts with me. Your 5 points are extremely helpful and I will absolutely keep them in mind when I vlog my shave for Barber Dave tomorrow. It's my intention to use my Joseph Elliot Travel Size 5/8 Near Wedge and Declaration Grooming Massacre of the Innocents Soap for the entirety of my learning process. I never considered composing a shaving journal, but I see benefits both in tracking my progress and in comradery building.

I'll keep you informed on my progress. Thanks again for your help.

Cheers!

Scott
 
CBLindsay said:
I agree! Keeping a journal of your progress is a very strong tool. I think I logged most if not all of my first 1000 straight razor shaves, I KNOW I logged my first year in pretty good detail. Not only did I log my shave experince but my razor maintenance and daily stropping routine. Sure, back then a bunch of us were doing much the same so we were able to learn together and teach eachother. Aside from the obvious benefit of being able to look back on your progress, logging the details (and including a daily photo) was a way to be really engaged in the whole experience.

With the prevenlence of daily shaving vlogs now, there is definately more in the way visual resources to use
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I agree with the points about journaling you and Bill have made, Chris. I think it's time to get started.

Cheers!

Scott
 
One thing I did not see asked or mentioned (although I could have missed it), who honed your blades and how fresh is the hone?
A bad edge can attribute to razor burn also. Not trying to badmouth anyone, but some "shave ready" edges are not that shave ready. Also, there can be a big difference in what is considered a sharp edge from person to person.

Don't take this personally, but are you sure of your stropping? Straights are a very fine edge and easy to damage or roll.

Just more variables to throw in the works when using a traditional straight.
 
ShawnF said:
One thing I did not see asked or mentioned (although I could have missed it), who honed your blades and how fresh is the hone?
A bad edge can attribute to razor burn also. Not trying to badmouth anyone, but some "shave ready" edges are not that shave ready. Also, there can be a big difference in what is considered a sharp edge from person to person.

Don't take this personally, but are you sure of your stropping? Straights are a very fine edge and easy to damage or roll.

Just more variables to throw in the works when using a traditional straight.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your questions. Matt at Griffith Vintage sharpened and honed my Elliot Travel Size 5/8 Near Wedge. It's the razor I'm using to learn. The Fillie 2nd Gen has been sent to Doc226 aka Alfredo for honing. Am I absolutely certain about my stropping? No. Certainly not. I've sharpened and honed handplane blades and chisels for my furniture making business for years, but stropping with leather in this way is a new skill; though, my honing skills for the other tools isn't completely unrelated.
 
pipingtenor2570 said:
Thank you for your questions. Matt at Griffith Vintage sharpened and honed my Elliot Travel Size 5/8 Near Wedge. It's the razor I'm using to learn. The Fillie 2nd Gen has been sent to Doc226 aka Alfredo for honing. Am I absolutely certain about my stropping? No. Certainly not. I've sharpened and honed handplane blades and chisels for my furniture making business for years, but stropping with leather in this way is a new skill; though, my honing skills for the other tools isn't completely unrelated.
Click to expand...
When I was learning to use a straight razor I borke the cardinal rule...don't learn to hone and to shave at the same time. To help remove the honing variable I bought a well made/honed razor from someone knows to provide solid shave ready razors (Doc226 is such a guy but I don't know who the other guy is). I shaved with that known quality razor for 40 days before I did anything to it other than stropping daily on a set of pated balsa strops after each shave and on a leather strop I had made before shaving. For me, I was pretty confident in my stropping but really had no way of knowing for sure. Just as I focused on pressing the whole razor/blade to my face to avoid being too heavy handed while shaving, I focused on the spine of the razor while stropping (visually and mentally) to ensure I was indeed leading with the spine and any excess pressure I might apply would be on the spine.

Not that it is the definative test of shave readyness but if you can do a hanging hair test along a few portions of the blade to prove to yourself the edge is acceptable that might help. Also, it IS possible that your skin will end up preferring blades honed on Coticules vs Jnats, or Arks vs Slate or whatever. Some edges just feel better to some people. Once you get more shaves under your belt you will be able to explore that aspect of straight razor shaving.
 
CBLindsay said:
When I was learning to use a straight razor I borke the cardinal rule...don't learn to hone and to shave at the same time. To help remove the honing variable I bought a well made/honed razor from someone knows to provide solid shave ready razors (Doc226 is such a guy but I don't know who the other guy is). I shaved with that known quality razor for 40 days before I did anything to it other than stropping daily on a set of pated balsa strops after each shave and on a leather strop I had made before shaving. For me, I was pretty confident in my stropping but really had no way of knowing for sure. Just as I focused on pressing the whole razor/blade to my face to avoid being too heavy handed while shaving, I focused on the spine of the razor while stropping (visually and mentally) to ensure I was indeed leading with the spine and any excess pressure I might apply would be on the spine.

Not that it is the definative test of shave readyness but if you can do a hanging hair test along a few portions of the blade to prove to yourself the edge is acceptable that might help. Also, it IS possible that your skin will end up preferring blades honed on Coticules vs Jnats, or Arks vs Slate or whatever. Some edges just feel better to some people. Once you get more shaves under your belt you will be able to explore that aspect of straight razor shaving.
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Thank you for giving me food for thought! I really appreciate that.
 
I am watching this with keen interest. You couldn't possibly have fallen to a better group of guys to help get you on track with open blade shaving. The advice you've been given is as good as it gets. I might add or amplify the tip that a bit soupier lather is beneficial .
 
Majorrich said:
I am watching this with keen interest. You couldn't possibly have fallen to a better group of guys to help get you on track with open blade shaving. The advice you've been given is as good as it gets. I might add or amplify the tip that a bit soupier lather is beneficial .
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I sense that you're absolutely right about this group of people. Kind, helpful, and generous. Barber Dave and the other owners have certainly created a safe space to learn and grow and share.
 
pipingtenor2570 said:
Thank you for your questions. Matt at Griffith Vintage sharpened and honed my Elliot Travel Size 5/8 Near Wedge. It's the razor I'm using to learn. The Fillie 2nd Gen has been sent to Doc226 aka Alfredo for honing. Am I absolutely certain about my stropping? No. Certainly not. I've sharpened and honed handplane blades and chisels for my furniture making business for years, but stropping with leather in this way is a new skill; though, my honing skills for the other tools isn't completely unrelated.
Click to expand...
Alfredo is definitely good at honing. Like Chis, i don't know of the other gentleman so I can't speak of his ability.
Something to consider, for me personally, a wedge or near wedge never gives me a good shave. I have very wiry whiskers and dry sensitive skin. I find that the finer edge of a quarter to full hollow grind works much better for me. I also had an easier time learning with a little bit wider razor.
I also broke the rule and learned to hone whole I was learning to use a straight. The honing was what really got me into it. I had purchased a mint henkles at an antique shop and wanted to try it. I figured I knew how to get a knife to "shaving "sharp so how hard could it be....
It ended up sitting on a shelf after a shave that felt like it was from a cheese grater.
I then hooked up with my honing mentor and found out honing a razor (while still rubbing a blade on a rock) is a very different animal. Knives and planes will not flex away from your apex if you rest your fingers on them just a smidgen.

I know you don't want to change many things while learning, but maybe try one of your fili's. Different grind from a different touch honing. Also, try it without stropping the first time. Alfredo's edge should be ready to go. That would eliminate that possible variable.
I will also echo what has been recommended about a lather on the wetter side. The extra sickness helps a lot.
You are definitely in a good place for info, now it's just determining what is going to work for you personally.
 
ShawnF said:
Alfredo is definitely good at honing. Like Chis, i don't know of the other gentleman so I can't speak of his ability.
Something to consider, for me personally, a wedge or near wedge never gives me a good shave. I have very wiry whiskers and dry sensitive skin. I find that the finer edge of a quarter to full hollow grind works much better for me. I also had an easier time learning with a little bit wider razor.
I also broke the rule and learned to hone whole I was learning to use a straight. The honing was what really got me into it. I had purchased a mint henkles at an antique shop and wanted to try it. I figured I knew how to get a knife to "shaving "sharp so how hard could it be....
It ended up sitting on a shelf after a shave that felt like it was from a cheese grater.
I then hooked up with my honing mentor and found out honing a razor (while still rubbing a blade on a rock) is a very different animal. Knives and planes will not flex away from your apex if you rest your fingers on them just a smidgen.

I know you don't want to change many things while learning, but maybe try one of your fili's. Different grind from a different touch honing. Also, try it without stropping the first time. Alfredo's edge should be ready to go. That would eliminate that possible variable.
I will also echo what has been recommended about a lather on the wetter side. The extra sickness helps a lot.
You are definitely in a good place for info, now it's just determining what is going to work for you personally.
Click to expand...
Thanks for giving me some good points to ponder. The skill set learning curve for SR shaving is much steeper than I had first imagined.
 
pipingtenor2570 said:
Thanks for giving me some good points to ponder. The skill set learning curve for SR shaving is much steeper than I had first imagined.
Click to expand...
Yep, I think most of us felt the same way at one time. I am not a Straight Razor expert, but I am comfortable using one now, however it took me quite a while to figure everything out. I made a lot of mistakes along the way. I screwed up 3-4 good edges due to stropping mistakes.
You will get it, it just takes time and patience.
 
Fenster said:
Yep, I think most of us felt the same way at one time. I am not a Straight Razor expert, but I am comfortable using one now, however it took me quite a while to figure everything out. I made a lot of mistakes along the way. I screwed up 3-4 good edges due to stropping mistakes.
You will get it, it just takes time and patience.
Click to expand...
I'm definitely here for the long term, Fenster. It's nice to know I'm not alone.
 
I want to publicly thank @BarberDave for taking time to create two outstanding, back to basics tutorials. If you haven't watched both Sunday and Monday's videos, please let me encourage you to do so. For many it will be a review, but for me it was a primer par excellence.

I'm not sure if my dad didn't know this information, or if he simply didn't share it with me, but I've gotten poor to middling shaves my entire adult life. And, when I began straight razor shaving recently, all of those basic deficiencies compounded the steepness of the SR learning curve. The end result is that I was tearing and cutting my face to shreds, spilling lots of red fluid, and generally finding SR shaving an utterly disagreeable and disheartening experience.

Through his 2 part series, Barber Dave has given me, and men like me, the tools I need to change the course of my SR and DE shave experience. In a matter of two shaves, I'm already getting significantly better results. He has transformed a chore into a pleasure, and I think that pleasure will only amplify as my skills get better and better. Have I arrived? Certainly not! But, I'm on the road to positive improvement and that will sustain me. This is a journey where end destination has little or no utility to me, and being on the road is everything.

I'm looking forward to passing these skills along to my son. He's not quite ready to shave yet, but I'll be ready when he is ready.

Thank you for being so willing to assist, and so generous with your time and talents, Barber Dave!

Sincerely,

Scott
 
pipingtenor2570 said:
I want to publicly thank @BarberDave for taking time to create two outstanding, back to basics tutorials. If you haven't watched both Sunday and Monday's videos, please let me encourage you to do so. For many it will be a review, but for me it was a primer par excellence.

I'm not sure if my dad didn't know this information, or if he simply didn't share it with me, but I've gotten poor to middling shaves my entire adult life. And, when I began straight razor shaving recently, all of those basic deficiencies compounded the steepness of the SR learning curve. The end result is that I was tearing and cutting my face to shreds, spilling lots of red fluid, and generally finding SR shaving an utterly disagreeable and disheartening experience.

Through his 2 part series, Barber Dave has given me, and men like me, the tools I need to change the course of my SR and DE shave experience. In a matter of two shaves, I'm already getting significantly better results. He has transformed a chore into a pleasure, and I think that pleasure will only amplify as my skills get better and better. Have I arrived? Certainly not! But, I'm on the road to positive improvement and that will sustain me. This is a journey where end destination has little or no utility to me, and being on the road is everything.

I'm looking forward to passing these skills along to my son. He's not quite ready to shave yet, but I'll be ready when he is ready.

Thank you for being so willing to assist, and so generous with your time and talents, Barber Dave!

Sincerely,

Scott
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My pleasure Scott. Glad it is working for you and we constanly can learn from all of us

A humble thank you sir
 
As much as I don't want to make his head swell, @BarberDave knows his sh... err... stuff.
On top of that, he is actually a great teacher. I know a few things but I can't get them out of my head in a manner that is understandable most of the time. Dave is not only willing to share, but does so very eloquently.
 
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