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Mentor Me Through an In-Person SR Shave?

pipingtenor2570

pipingtenor2570

Shave Member
Gentlemen,

Are there any long time SR shavers around that might be willing to mentor me through an in-person shave? I live just outside Chattanooga, TN and am willing to travel within a 200 mile radius, including Nashville, Knoxville, Atlanta, and Birmingham, AL. I'm also in St. Louis during 2 weekends each month. I know that knowledge and expertise have value, and would renumerate the mentor.

I am following Barber Dave's SR curriculum closely, but could use some extra help. I know the problems are with me and not his method. I'm hoping that someone can watch me, spot my deficiencies, and help me correct them.

Thank you!

Scott
 
Barring someone able to help in-person, do you have any inkling of what might be the issue? How many SR shaves do you have under your belt?
 
Good morning, GearNoir. I think it's a combination of things. I believe it's likely that I apply too much pressure on my skin with the blade. Secondly, I'm not absolutely positive that my lather making is what it needs to be. It's glossy and less like frosting and more like paint, but I still don't know if it's absolutely right. Sometimes, by the time I shave one side, the other side has lost moisture and my razor doesn't glide, but that could be a pressure issue too. Thirdly, my neck always ends up feeling raw and sore by pass 3. I'm 12 or 13 shaves in at this point. Sanookd has been a treasure in helping and advising me, but I think I need the extra reinforcement of somebody's watchful eye for a shave or two.
 
If possible, do a video of you straight, razor, shaving, and I would need to ask what section of the straight razor tutorial. Are you in? You can PM me the link to that video and I will be more than happy to take a look at it to see if I see any discrepancies or any issues on technique that could assist you. That being said don’t be in a hurry and a minimum of 50 shades as many as 100 shades to get your technique down.
 
Also, are you trying to use a traditional straight razor or a removable blade, straight razor or Chevette as they are two completely different disciplines and techniques
 
BarberDave said:
Also, are you trying to use a traditional straight razor or a removable blade, straight razor or Chevette as they are two completely different disciplines and techniques
Click to expand...
Thank you, Barber Dave! That's an extremely generous offer, and I'm so grateful. I have 3 traditional straight razors only. I have Fillie 14s: one is a first generation and the other is a second generation. I also have a Joseph Elliot Travel Size 5/8 Near Wedge from early/mid 19th Century. I'm on the second section of your curriculum, and am sticking with the Elliot because it's a 5/8. I use Declaration Grooming Massacre of the Innocents Soap. I've been bowl lathering but am switching over to face lathering. I will do just as you've instructed and film a shave start to finish.
 
pipingtenor2570 said:
Thank you, Barber Dave! That's an extremely generous offer, and I'm so grateful. I have 3 traditional straight razors only. I have Fillie 14s: one is a first generation and the other is a second generation. I also have a Joseph Elliot Travel Size 5/8 Near Wedge from early/mid 19th Century. I'm on the second section of your curriculum, and am sticking with the Elliot because it's a 5/8. I use Declaration Grooming Massacre of the Innocents Soap. I've been bowl lathering but am switching over to face lathering. I will do just as you've instructed and film a shave start to finish.
Click to expand...
I’ll take a look at it and then maybe after we see if we can determine what’s going on with you we can do probably a live Zoom shave, but let’s start off with the video and we’ll go from there
 
BarberDave said:
I’ll take a look at it and then maybe after we see if we can determine what’s going on with you we can do probably a live Zoom shave, but let’s start off with the video and we’ll go from there
Click to expand...
Here's what happens after every shave, just for reference. I end up a weeping, razor burned, raw mess. This is was taken today, but a result of my shave yesterday.1000011386.jpg
 
Hopefully, B Dave can find a few suggestions in watching your video. One issue related to pressure that I ran into. I found that without thinking about it, I was trying to shave with the entire length of the blade, which caused me to put pressure to have the entire length make contact at the same time.
 
There are a number of things (individually or combined) that lead to razor burn, if you are watching @BarberDave's introduction/training videos you may already be aware of the basics like stretching, angle and pressure. Based on my own experience and memory of my earlier days I recommend double checking your angle and stretching. I found/find using my off hand to stretch rather than relying on puffing your cheeks or twisting your neck to be most beneficial (if you can do it). Again, I think Dave shows some of his techniques in his SR 101 vids. FOR ME, the absolute best thing i did to manage pressure was to lay the razor as flat against my face as I could while still getting enough angle to shave my beard. I tend to be heavy handed so pressing the whole blade against my face helped me avoid pressing the edge too hard into my face.
 
Just some general pointers to also follow up.

Assuming you’re well versed at DE/SE shaving and do not have these same issues…I have found that my SR lather when I began the practice was much like my DE/SE lather but not as wet and would often dry because I spent longer concentrating on my SR strokes so shaves were taking longer, leading to the lather drying in my face. A few extra drops of water literally can make the difference to perfectly slick and longer lasting lather, leaving only time as your enemy in that regard, until you have more practice and get your SR passes down better. I now find that because of learning to make better lather, I only use SR-ready lather for any shave, DE/SE or otherwise. There’s been no going back for me.

When I get or have had similar razor burn/irritation, assuming you are keeping a fairly shallow angle on the razor (with the edge on the face the razor spine should probably be anywhere from probably 15-45 degrees at the most off the skin), it is almost always either due to a heavy hand/too much pressure, going over one area with too many strokes (trust the process of 3 passes WTG/XTG and ATG if you can handle it or otherwise a hybrid pass), or the razor was not sharp enough. Barring the soap drying on your face (in which case it should be rinsed off and reapplied as soon as you notice this start to happen), if the blade is feeling a bit tuggy or like you are having to force it a bit, more than likely sharpness is the issue. Either the edge has not been properly maintained with stropping or the edge was not sharp enough from the get go.

What @NurseDave said about not trying to always use the whole length of the edge at once is also helpful. Except for my cheeks, which I can keep fairly flat, most of my SR strokes don’t use more than half the edge length and I tend to favor the front/toe side for detail work in the nooks and crannies.

Those things said, with only so many SR shaves under your belt, better things are yet to come with time and practice! Stick with it!
 
NurseDave said:
Hopefully, B Dave can find a few suggestions in watching your video. One issue related to pressure that I ran into. I found that without thinking about it, I was trying to shave with the entire length of the blade, which caused me to put pressure to have the entire length make contact at the same time.
Click to expand...
Sometimes I wonder if that's subconsciously what I'm doing. It's also possible I just don't yet have enough blade control to pinpoint exactly which section of the blade to shave with at any given time. I'm not sure.
 
CBLindsay said:
There are a number of things (individually or combined) that lead to razor burn, if you are watching @BarberDave's introduction/training videos you may already be aware of the basics like stretching, angle and pressure. Based on my own experience and memory of my earlier days I recommend double checking your angle and stretching. I found/find using my off hand to stretch rather than relying on puffing your cheeks or twisting your neck to be most beneficial (if you can do it). Again, I think Dave shows some of his techniques in his SR 101 vids. FOR ME, the absolute best thing i did to manage pressure was to lay the razor as flat against my face as I could while still getting enough angle to shave my beard. I tend to be heavy handed so pressing the whole blade against my face helped me avoid pressing the edge too hard into my face.
Click to expand...
Really excellent insights! Thank you for taking time to help me. I'm grateful.
 
GearNoir said:
Just some general pointers to also follow up.

Assuming you’re well versed at DE/SE shaving and do not have these same issues…I have found that my SR lather when I began the practice was much like my DE/SE lather but not as wet and would often dry because I spent longer concentrating on my SR strokes so shaves were taking longer, leading to the lather drying in my face. A few extra drops of water literally can make the difference to perfectly slick and longer lasting lather, leaving only time as your enemy in that regard, until you have more practice and get your SR passes down better. I now find that because of learning to make better lather, I only use SR-ready lather for any shave, DE/SE or otherwise. There’s been no going back for me.

When I get or have had similar razor burn/irritation, assuming you are keeping a fairly shallow angle on the razor (with the edge on the face the razor spine should probably be anywhere from probably 15-45 degrees at the most off the skin), it is almost always either due to a heavy hand/too much pressure, going over one area with too many strokes (trust the process of 3 passes WTG/XTG and ATG if you can handle it or otherwise a hybrid pass), or the razor was not sharp enough. Barring the soap drying on your face (in which case it should be rinsed off and reapplied as soon as you notice this start to happen), if the blade is feeling a bit tuggy or like you are having to force it a bit, more than likely sharpness is the issue. Either the edge has not been properly maintained with stropping or the edge was not sharp enough from the get go.

What @NurseDave said about not trying to always use the whole length of the edge at once is also helpful. Except for my cheeks, which I can keep fairly flat, most of my SR strokes don’t use more than half the edge length and I tend to favor the front/toe side for detail work in the nooks and crannies.

Those things said, with only so many SR shaves under your belt, better things are yet to come with time and practice! Stick with it!
Click to expand...
Thank you for the practical advice and the encouragement to persevere. You've taken time from your day to help me, and I really appreciate it. I think it's absolutely possible that I get too steep of an angle and too much pressure, which could possibly be in response to drying lather and my blade starting to feel draggy.
 
I would disagree with one thing nurse Dave said is the fact that the matters you do want to shave with the entire length of the blade because if you think about it from a pitch and yaw standpoint, if you are only shaving with the toe edge, the middle or the heel of the blade that means that you’re lifting up so that the other part of the blade is not touching your face that’s a recipe for disaster because it can dig in. LOL so with a regular straight edge, you do want to have the entire length of the blade up against your face and adjust your angle not your pitch or your yaw

This is a common misnomer when using a straight razor as opposed to a shavette, a much lower and shorter shaving edge so you can get away with just shaving on the front middle or back, but not with a regular straight razor you want that entire blade to be in contact with your face at all times

I will actually make a point to prove this on my video on Sunday
 
Also, the optimal shave angle for a straight razor in the ones you mentioned should be about 30° the easiest way as Chris had mentioned is lay the blood blade flat against your face rotate until you feel it engage. Also make sure that you were locking your wrist and using your shoulder as a fulcrum.
 
BarberDave said:
Also, the optimal shave angle for a straight razor in the ones you mentioned should be about 30° the easiest way as Chris had mentioned is lay the blood blade flat against your face rotate until you feel it engage. Also make sure that you were locking your wrist and using your shoulder as a fulcrum.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the clarifications, Barber Dave. Ill lay the spine and blade against my face and just rotate until it engages the slightest amount. Lock my wrist. Yes, I've been using my shoulder as a fulcrum, just as you suggest in video 100. I'm giving my face today to rest and allow irritation to calm down. I'll video my shave for you tomorrow.
 
@pipingtenor2570
Hi Scott:

I have 5 principles I suggest new shavers to build techniques on using any type of hardware, but especially so in straights.
1) Sharp Steel
2) Slick Soap
3) Lowest Angle
4) Lightest touch
5) Stretch the skin

Find a good balance these things and ultimately you will be successful. Make very sure that you chase comfort first and allow closeness to develop naturally over time.

I learned to shave under multiple disciplines where the main rule was to use exactly the same hardware and software repeatedly for a whole month. I don’t see that sort of thing around as much anymore but at that time there was 30-50 guys all cataloging their progress together in one single group. It was fun to see how everyone was progressing.

If you have not done so already, do take @BarberDave up on the Zoom style offer. I have always considered him to have a highly refined skillset that many can learn from.
I’m not sure if you have established a journal yet but it can be another great learning tool. You catalog your experience, progress and others can drop by with their input. Tag me in if you start one.

Good luck and have fun.
Bill
 
Bill M said:
@pipingtenor2570
Hi Scott:

I have 5 principles I suggest new shavers to build techniques on using any type of hardware, but especially so in straights.
1) Sharp Steel
2) Slick Soap
3) Lowest Angle
4) Lightest touch
5) Stretch the skin

Find a good balance these things and ultimately you will be successful. Make very sure that you chase comfort first and allow closeness to develop naturally over time.

I learned to shave under multiple disciplines where the main rule was to use exactly the same hardware and software repeatedly for a whole month. I don’t see that sort of thing around as much anymore but at that time there was 30-50 guys all cataloging their progress together in one single group. It was fun to see how everyone was progressing.

If you have not done so already, do take @BarberDave up on the Zoom style offer. I have always considered him to have a highly refined skillset that many can learn from.
I’m not sure if you have established a journal yet but it can be another great learning tool. You catalog your experience, progress and others can drop by with their input. Tag me in if you start one.

Good luck and have fun.
Bill
Click to expand...
I agree! Keeping a journal of your progress is a very strong tool. I think I logged most if not all of my first 1000 straight razor shaves, I KNOW I logged my first year in pretty good detail. Not only did I log my shave experince but my razor maintenance and daily stropping routine. Sure, back then a bunch of us were doing much the same so we were able to learn together and teach eachother. Aside from the obvious benefit of being able to look back on your progress, logging the details (and including a daily photo) was a way to be really engaged in the whole experience.

With the prevenlence of daily shaving vlogs now, there is definately more in the way visual resources to use
 
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