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Low loft synthetics?

HMan

HMan

Doften Savant
Have any of you tried using a low loft in a synthetic brush?

My Paladins are set low at 48 mm and I really like them. Very dense and zero flop.

I'd been wondering how a synthetic would perform at the same loft, and by coincidence when the new Elegant Emerald I ordered from APShaveCo came it was set at 48 mm.

I'm not sure if that is an accident, as they are supposed to be set at 52 mm, but that's ok as my curiosity is satisfied.

EDIT: I just heard back from Andrew at APShave. The brush is a 22 mm, and they are set lower.

The brush makes really thick lather, I suppose because it holds less water, and is very dense with no glue bump or hole in the middle like I see with many synthetics.

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The Elegant Emerald SynBad 22 mm / 48 mm loft


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Comparison with 26 mm Paladin Chief at 48 mm loft




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Comparison with the APShaveCo brushes straight out of the water.


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Comparison with other APShaveCo brushes after 4 strops to remove excess water
Note how the lack of clumping with the low loft.
 

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EDIT: I just heard back from Andrew at APShave. The brush is a 22 mm, and they are set lower. Somehow I thought I'd ordered a 24 mm which would have been set at 52 mm.

Well it was a lucky mistake anyway, I was really curious how a low loft synthetic would work, and I got one exactly where I wanted it.

(The 10 minute time limit to edit, why.)
 
I had a Knothead brush with a Craving Shaving synthetic knot in it set really low. I’m used to knots that splay willingly and that one did not. It was a great painter but that was about it. In fact it was so off putting that I sent it to Razor Emporium to remove and replace the knot. I went into it with an open mind but it wasn’t for me. If you like it then that’s all that matters.


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Soap Thing said:
I had a Knothead brush with a Craving Shaving synthetic knot in it set really low. I’m used to knots that splay willingly and that one did not. It was a great painter but that was about it. In fact it was so off putting that I sent it to Razor Emporium to remove and replace the knot. I went into it with an open mind but it wasn’t for me. If you like it then that’s all that matters.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Ah, I can only paint with synthetics, even the softest of them irritate my skin if I try to scrub at all.
 
HMan said:
Ah, I can only paint with synthetics, even the softest of them irritate my skin if I try to scrub at all.
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That's interesting because I find my synthetics to have a way softer face feel than any other brush. Especially my cashmere!
 
Spider said:
That's interesting because I find my synthetics to have a way softer face feel than any other brush. Especially my cashmere!
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Same for me if I just touch them with my hand, soft, soft, soft, but when I go to splay the brush on my face I can feel the fibre prick my skin, feels almost like being poked with needles. That would be ok, but then there's a lot of lingering irritation.

It's something with the very tips that irritates me. Once it's splayed no problem.
 
I have/had a couple low loft synths. I like the way the feel and perform honestly. I used to have one, though that was so low that it was really too stiff for my liking.
 
Interesting. The 2020 TSC anniversary brush was/is an AP shave synthetic knot set at low loft and we had a handful of members who REALLY objected to it for various reasons. It is a larger knot by several sizes but it was set deep (deeper than we anticipated) giving it a significant amount of lather flinging power despite having soft tips. Did AP shave happen to mention if the hole was drilled significantly larger than 22mm? Perhaps it’s a combination of low loft and wide hole that gives the knot the perfect amount of splay and performance you enjoy.
 
CBLindsay said:
Interesting. The 2020 TSC anniversary brush was/is an AP shave synthetic knot set at low loft and we had a handful of members who REALLY objected to it for various reasons. It is a larger knot by several sizes but it was set deep (deeper than we anticipated) giving it a significant amount of lather flinging power despite having soft tips. Did AP shave happen to mention if the hole was drilled significantly larger than 22mm? Perhaps it’s a combination of low loft and wide hole that gives the knot the perfect amount of splay and performance you enjoy.
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Hah, interesting, Andrew actually did give me that info, the hole is 26 mm and he felt that any more loft would have made the brush too floppy with so little support.

I'm totally amazed at his service, I didn't really expect an answer much less giving out all the details like that.
 
HMan said:
Hah, interesting, Andrew actually did give me that info, the hole is 26 mm and he felt that any more loft would have made the brush too floppy with so little support.

I'm totally amazed at his service, I didn't really expect an answer much less giving out all the details like that.
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I have found that a smaller knot in a larger hole makes for a very enjoyable experience. I don't know if I have done it with a synthetic (that I remember at the moment) but I do know that I have put several Super high density 24mm badgers in a 26-28mm hole and set it a little deeper. I think (don't hold me to this) that this is a trick or technique that is probably pretty common among the higher end brush makers. I don't know if they describe the knot as being the smaller size or the size of the larger opening but the end result is a somewhat less dense (less than super high density) knot with a beautiful shape and premium performance. I recently did the same with a boar knot in a resin/wood handle I made some time back and learned the hard way that the flaw in doing that is that the deeper set allows the bristles to swell within the handle and the thin walls cracked a bit. But that wouldn't be as big a problem with synthetic or badger.
 
I've found it's not just the loft, it's more the loft/knot ratio that really matters. If you maintain the ratio across different knot sizes, you'll get very similar feel. As @CBLindsay mentioned, the hole diameter does play a role as well.

Personally, I don't like the low-lofted synthetics. They don't splay well, they tend to gather water up in the handle area where all of the fibers are packed together, and it gets released when you don't want it to, thinning out lather unexpectedly. It also tends to make them feel springy to me.
 
IIRC, when Simpson offered their first synthetic Chubbies, they had the knot set lower and ultimately did a course correction and set them higher in later batches, which they continue to do. Soft tips or not, I wouldn’t want a low set synthetic. It’s probably like lathering with a bullet.

I say that fully admitting that the floppy Plisson synthetic for L’Occitane is glorious.
 
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