How do I really know?

[DocHoliday0831]

I just received two vintage (not ready) and one new traditional straight. How do I really know if/when these are truly shave ready. The new one specifically will easily shave arm hair but not tree top it and I can’t get a head hair to be cut for squat. I realize this means it isn’t ready. I also have and my main goal was to learn to hone these before learning to shave with them. I’m using the SS, half-DE shavette, and now a Sextoblade for that part. I’ve watched several videos but seem to get mixed answers. I own a 1k, 3k, 6k, 8k, and 10k synthetic water stones and really want to understand when/if I can say ok take this one to your face.

 

[Dagwoodz]

Great questions, TJ, but not the easiest answer to give. It's easy to go down the rabbit hole of the discussion on what constitutes a shave ready blade, but instead I'll keep it to this:

BLUF: The ultimate test of whether a straight razor is shave-ready is doing an actual shave with it.

I have some razors which pass all the checks prior (tree-topping, HHT, look great under the loupe, etc...) but are poor shavers, whether they were too harsh, or just not sharp enough. But what is shave ready to one person, is not even close to someone else, just due to differences in facial hair composition (density, thickness, etc.), and skin sensitivity. Grind type and the bevel angle also play a part in how the razor might perform in those checks as well.

Now, if there are obvious flaws in the blade that can be seen either with the naked eye or under the loupe, then I would take the blade to the stones. If the pre-shave checks aren't giving you a warm and fuzzy, or you just have no confidence that the razor will cut hair, then it would be worthwhile to get the blades honed, or hone them yourself. The synthetic set up you have should be able to get a razor to a good level of keenness, so I would fidget around with them. Also, maybe sending one of your blades off to a honemeister to be honed to give a baseline blade, then seeing how close you can get to that with the set-up you have might be a good way to go.

Also, different finishing stones may react differently to those pre-shave checks and feel completely different on the face. (Ark vs. JNAT vs. Coti vs. Synth vs. CNAT vs. lapping film). That's getting into a completely different discussion, however.

Sorry for the meandering post...

 

[DocHoliday0831]

BLUF: The ultimate test of whether a straight razor is shave-ready is doing an actual shave with it.

I was kind of anticipating that was the real answer. I was hoping to learn to hone them well before learning to shave with a traditional straight as said above. Thanks for your input I may send one of the vintage ones to someone to hone and then base my honing on their results.

 

[Smattayu]

Josh pretty much nailed it. It is generally best to learn to shave with a well-honed straight before learning to hone them yourself. You'll get to feel what an edge should be like, and can make much better comparisons with your own efforts once you do start your own rock quarry.

 

[The Monkey]

Since this is a smaller and friendlier group, can I throw my stupidity up against the wall?

I have gotten razors that were said to be shave ready but like you they weren't tree topping hair consistently. I'll take it to the tomato to test to test bevel. I just touch the edge of the blade to see if it brakes the skin. I start at the toe and work down to the heel. A lot of times when I get inconsistent HHT tests I find spots on the blade that the bevel isn't set.

If this makes no sense then please read my signature.

 

[clyde72]

TJ, please don't attempt to learn to hone and straight shave at the same time.

As Eric stated above, it is best to have a honemeister hone one of them for you so you can concentrate on learning how to use the razor and develop a good stropping technique.

If you attempt to learn both at the same time you will constantly be wondering if is you, the razor, or the honing.

IMHO

 

[DocHoliday0831]

Josh pretty much nailed it. It is generally best to learn to shave with a well-honed straight before learning to hone them yourself. You'll get to feel what an edge should be like, and can make much better comparisons with your own efforts once you do start your own rock quarry.

TJ, please don't attempt to learn to hone and straight shave at the same time.

As Eric stated above, it is best to have a honemeister hone one of them for you so you can concentrate on learning how to use the razor and develop a good stropping technique.

If you attempt to learn both at the same time you will constantly be wondering if is you, the razor, or the honing.

IMHO

Well two guys I trust the advice of have just told me to send at least one to a honemiester and I think that is probably the best route for me to go. So now to find a honemiester to send them to. I probably will send all three at first that way I will know the baseline for each one.

 

[gvw755]

Since this is a smaller and friendlier group, can I throw my stupidity up against the wall?

I have gotten razors that were said to be shave ready but like you they weren't tree topping hair consistently. I'll take it to the tomato to test to test bevel. I just touch the edge of the blade to see if it brakes the skin. I start at the toe and work down to the heel. A lot of times when I get inconsistent HHT tests I find spots on the blade that the bevel isn't set.

If this makes no sense then please read my signature.

What do yo do with the tomato afterwards? Actually, from my experience as a professional cook in the past, tomato skin is very hard to cut unless the blade is extremely sharp (or using a serrated blade).

For me, I make an attempt at getting a good edge on the blade and then shaving with it with the expectation that it will go back to the hone some time before the next shave. after that first shave I know what else need to be done, which has included resetting the bevel. Most times it is just more laps on the lapping film or couple more laps on the 6k stone.

 

[Smattayu]

What do yo do with the tomato afterwards?

 

[The Monkey]

What do yo do with the tomato afterwards? Actually, from my experience as a professional cook in the past, tomato skin is very hard to cut unless the blade is extremely sharp (or using a serrated blade).

I just gets tossed.

 

[CBLindsay]

TJ, please don't attempt to learn to hone and straight shave at the same time.

As Eric stated above, it is best to have a honemeister hone one of them for you so you can concentrate on learning how to use the razor and develop a good stropping technique.

If you attempt to learn both at the same time you will constantly be wondering if is you, the razor, or the honing.

IMHO

This is a very wise, very typical recommendation but....
I learned to to both at the same time. I had 1 or 2 properly honed razors as my daily driver and go to but I started working on blades almost as soon as I bought my first 3 razors. It was part necessity and part curiosity. I had one razor (a Genco Master Barber) that had a geometry flaw in the heel so I went to the honemiesters over at B&B and showed a photo and asked how/if I should be fixing this issue. I got dozens of people providing feed back, ranging from “toss it, it’s got a frown” to “use a dremal to ...” . Then they all started going back and forth amongst themselves as to whether the edge needed to be bread knifed or if it could be ... The point being, there are dozens of “correct” or workable answers and finding the right one for YOU depends on your willingness to take chances, learn new things and leverage what skills you already have. me? I was too stupid to know better so I dove in with both feet. I also picked up a couple gold dollars and started modifying them. Sure, I ran into some big issues but nothing that couldn’t be overcome with some patience and help from others.

Your (TJ) set up looks like it will cover your needs for quite some time. You may end up wanting a better finisher but absent a natural finishing stone I imagin some very low grit (1micron and less) lapping film and/or diamond pasted balsa (0.5/0.25/0.10 micron...0.10micron is great) will take you far. As has been shared already, some of the “tests” you would commonly use to prove keenness may not prove the true nature of the edge. You have to remember, you are learning to hone AND perform/read those tests. I agree, you should have at least one known shave ready traditional straight on hand to compare to, the Weck and feather blades will always feel different from a honed straight.

I say, grab a straight razor with no obvious geometrical issues and start honing. Maybe start by beginning at you 4K and work up. For your first attempts DONT kill the edge unless it was terrible to begin with, this will alllow you to work through the progression and see if your basic technique is SO far off you are killing the edge somewhere along the way. If you do kill the edge, do so very lightly so you aren’t creating new problems then run a sharpie marker along the edge (both sides) so you can see where and how your hones are touching the blade.

If you really want to get all the benefit you can, find a learning buddy here on TSC and send razors back and forth so you can test and critique each other. Keep refining your shaving skills with the shavettes but start working in traditional straights so you get a feel for what they can do and how they feel doing it.

My philosophy when it comes to all things traditional shaving is there is nothing you shouldn’t try. Know that you have friends here to help you when you get stuck or bail you out when you totally screw up.