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Help a n00b out regarding past discussion of healthy purchasing

Very good subject to cover.

I remember a thread on another shaving forum and the guy had been compulsively buying shaving things. And he would do many of the things on your list, such as hiding them from his spouse, lying to his spouse about it and creating financial problems.

He had come onto the forum asking for help. But the help he wanted was how to cover it up better and save his marriage. Users were trying to steer him in the right direction, but he didn’t want to hear it. Then the wife signed onto the forum to blame the members. Then they were both gone. Messy business. But it is an unhealthy obsession and needs to be addressed.
I remember that one. A sad occasion that I’m sure plays out quite often in our own “hobby” and clearly in other ways as well.
Coming to a forum for help to stop buying is like hanging out at the bar looking for help to stop drinking.
Sad and often true.

I tend to agree with you @elmerPHuD. I applaud your efforts to provide a resource. Not everyone knows when or has the guts to move forward with a call for help; sometimes it takes the recognition of others, who know the person well, to lovingly approach them.

I think the only advice I’d give would have to do with moderation and then how to enable enjoyment over allowing FOMO to take over. The flip side would be a call for communities to not make light of a call for help when it does come and also have each other’s backs when it comes to being their “brother’s keeper” - check-in and what not.

Addictions, obsessions, and their treatments are outside the purview of most here, not being educated in such a speciality. I doubt most of us could give you a proper analysis or suggestion for content better than you might come up with on your own.
 
We can offer guidance when asked for, but we can't control someone else.

Should we recognize if someone reaches out, Yes. Should we become their "Doctor" No. We should not offer help IMHO unsollicited it is not our place to do so.

None, it is navigation we all need to find our and find our own path. Those of us older folks were allowed to fall down, scrape up our knees. Were picked up by our parents, brush off, hit in the butt, and told to move on. Again my opinion, success in life is just a series of failures we have surmounted. We hand hold too much today IMHO

See that is the thing. I have had guys who watch my videos contact me and ask how to strategize their purchases, or advice on not going too far, or how to build a collection. Maybe I should have led with that fact. There is just stuff I wish I knew when I started the hobby about strategies for building a collection. As @Cvargo has his perspective in banking, I have mine as the former therapist and director of a community mental health center. Just like I watch @BarberDave videos knowing that he is a barber and therefore knows his stuff, some of my viewers know my background and reach out. Shaving just happens to be the commonality that makes it more comfortable for them to reach out.

I am aware folks have problems in all walks of life, gambling, drinking, spending, etc, however IMHO it is better left to those that are close to us, friends, family.
As weird as it may seem, some people are more comfortable reaching out to a stranger to get perspective. Sometimes they can talk about stuff with a stranger that they cannot with those they are closest to. Often after they have talked to someone less threatening they can then face those they are closest too. I have just been shocked how many guys have reached out to me about this.

we should be able to distinguish between what we should be doing and not be doing
Yes that is ideal. But for a variety of reasons my own purchase decision making gets clouded too. I am hearing from some of you that has never been a problem. I guess I was just curious about yall's own internal dialogue. Is it just as simple as "can I afford this" or "maybe I really don't need 4 backup bottles of my favorite aftershave that is supposed to be discontinued." Or do you not have to even think about it? Clearly some have decided to stop purchasing at times and share that on here. I was just curious to hear some stories. Thanks for the input. I have also got some DMs about this.
 
So for myself the deal between my wife and I was that if I wanted to buy something shave related (or other hobbies) that the bills and monthly expenses needed to be covered first, part of the check going into savings, and so forth. Basically is summed up to me needing to work overtime. However since COVID-19 I have been working about 20+ hours of overtime a week, so at first I was just buying and buying. I could tell my wife was getting annoyed, but she didn't feel right saying anything since I was using overtime money. So I found a solution, with your help actually, and I think it has worked fairly well.

1. I broke my soaps up into seasons. I get to enjoy them a little longer and the anxiety doesn't overwhelm me. I figured 10-12 soaps per season was reasonable. I still reserve the right to use a favorite if I feel like using it (Dragonsbeard, ROS, Rossa, so forth.)
2. I have made a list of soaps I know I want to purchase, but if I have already hit my soap count for that season I must use a soap up before purchasing the next one.
3. I have made a list of razors that I want and will stick to those. If another razor comes out that I want then I either have to take a different razor off the list or sell/pif one I currently have.
4. One month prior to big events (birthday, fathers day, anniversary, Christmas) I stop all purchases so that I don't buy anything my wife or family may want to get for me.
5. I limit myself to big purchases and small purchases. Two big purchases a year (Razors or luxury brush, or frags) and maybe a soap aftershave set per season.

This year rule #5 didn't get followed too well because I was building my den up a little bit, but that will be how I conduct purchases in the future. Hope this helps Todd and I am really digging the new direction of your channel!
 
I know (hope?) this will come as a surprise to many but It is literally my ‘day job’ to counsel people on financial priorities and making the best financial choices (then to invest their hard earned $$ in stuff that grows in value faster than a vintage Gillette red dot toggleI’ve done it for 15 years. While I typically stay out of the psychological weeds as much as I can I always advise against avoiding indulgences entirely, not allowing for some “play” or wiggle in a budget will always lead to failure. How you choose to play, or what your wiggle is is entirely personal but it has to be there at some level. It may not always be a custom brush or even shaving related but it needs to be there.

My “solution” was called VADER, it was a process that allowed for a living budget of sorts that allowed for buying AND selling of gear that was within the specified hobby(s). I came up with it because I found enjoyment from buying as much as having as mush as collecting and trading and selling. For me and I suspect others, the fun is about more than clicking “buy” ...but if you’ve got a ‘problem’ I guess the purchase is the problem. But I wonder if those that have purchase problems find enjoyment in banter and videos too, do they make videos about shaving with the gear they purchase or just buy without regard for how or if it will be used?

I try to keep my financial brain droppings to a minimum because Dave hates picking them up and Chad rubs my nose in them and yells “no no”...I HATE having my nose rubbed in financial brain droppings, even if they are Mine.
 
My “solution” was called VADER, it was a process that allowed for a living budget of sorts that allowed for buying AND selling of gear that was within the specified hobby(s)

I try to keep my financial brain droppings to a minimum because Dave hates picking them up and Chad rubs my nose in them and yells “no no”...
These are the exact type of droppings I was looking for. Thanks @CBLindsay
 
Seeing where this is going, I'll add some thoughts to my previous post.

1. If it's your channel, these ideas really need to be yours, coming from your experience. Otherwise your just making an aggregate post, which doesn't have much meaning. You'll garner more respect talking about this from the POV of what you've learned, your successes and failures.

2. As this thread has brought out, there are at least two degrees of severity to this issue. The non-clinical one, which is where pretty much everyone here is at. That's where we occasionally get carried away, and admittedly we all have more than we need to just have a shave. That's also the level where we all joke and make fun of each other and even laugh about the whole issue, because it's not really an issue at all in the grand scheme of things.

The severe level is the clinical one, and you really can't go there other than to say it exists and to seek out help if that's you. That's really the only advice you can give without opening a pandoras box of issues.

I'm in the fitness business, and we often have people asking advice on injuries, we are obligated to say, 'we can't diagnose over the internet, please seek professional advice.'

Now the normal level of shave hoarding is something people ask about on a cyclic basis on forums. I know there have been such threads here, and the discussions tend to go in circles, because everyone is in a different place in their collecting. There's no right answer to what is enough or too much, other than, if it's messing up the rest of your life, which is then getting into that more severe zone.

3. Now this is my own take on the problem. The whole issue is just a matter of need vs. want. Almost by definition a hobby is something that adds some richness to your life, but also has an opportunity cost. How people deal with that is less important, IMO, than understanding that. Very few people can have it all. There are always trade offs in how much you invest in one area of your life compared to another, and to have a healthy relationship with a hobby that needs to be clear on some level.

The other half of the equation, once limits are set, is to just be able to be comfortable with where you're at. If you can't be, then as other's have mentioned, avoidance is probably the best solution. Just stay away from temptation in the first place. It might not even be temptation, but it might just make you feel bad seeing all these shinny things and know you can't have them.

Without that base understanding a list of tips comes off like a Dear Abby post, more so if they aren't your own tips.

4. If it's really aimed at noobs, the best advice I ever saw and I followed it, was just buy one razor, brush and a known decent soap. Don't buy anything more until you've used the soap. That advice nips the whole issue in the bud, and gives a budding shaver a chance to learn to appreciate any differences any new product may bring. Otherwise the constant changing up of rotation deprives a noobie of forming a solid base of experience by which to judge any new gear that comes into the den.
 
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I guess I was just curious about yall's own internal dialogue
For me, it's just are my bills paid and is there food in the cupboard? If yes and there is enough extra then I can purchase that. If no, then that purchase needs to wait.
I even do this for my knife making. I started very basic and bare bones then added things from products I sold. I use the money the shop brings in to grow it and not take from my living expenses.

As far as getting started, I really agree with sticking with one setup to learn your gear. That is unless you have a reaction to the soap or something along those lines. Then branch out with passarounds, trades, and samples to help learn what you like.

As for my collection, a lot of it was gained from antique store funds, bst deals, and trades. For the most part I don't really have a lot into what I have other than a few items I really wanted and could justify the money being extra.
 
A lot has been said, but I’ll add my 2 cents..

the wife and I have a budget, so to speak, to guide our non-essential purchases. We get “X” dollars of month for whatever, no questions asked...even though shaving gear seems to raise a lot of questions 🤷‍♂️Anyway, do we go over that amount? You bet. But rarely by much because our budget keeps us on track. We are blessed financially so we are not too strict but this has helped both of us over the years so that we don’t ask at the end of the month “what happened?!”

I do agree that starting out, learning on one set up would be beneficial to mastering technique. However, most of us are in this as a hobby and variety and collecting is what really drives us. If it were just to get great shaves and save $, NONE of us would be here at the Cadre. So that’s where I think a reasonable, individualized budget really curtails most overspending. Hope this helps.
 
What keeps me in check is just my frugal nature. I don’t get FOMO, I get FOBR (fear of buyers remorse).

I started out with a Weishi setup from the bay. It was a razor, stand, badger brush and bowl. Bought a tuck of blades and VDH soap at Wally World. Used that soap until gone and got Proraso Red soap/AS. Kept moving forward from there.

I got into casual collecting vintage DEs and started picking up soap and AS sets. I kept my purchases small and acquired other things through PIFs or trades. Then the collecting bug just went away. I already had what I needed for a good shave. So I started purging things.

The first step in management is to focus and improve with what you have.

Join pass arounds and get samples to try new things before a bllind purchase.

Future purchases have to stay within your “play money” budget. No exceptions.
 
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opportunity cost.
Another great concept for folks to remember

these ideas really need to be yours
I try to be collaborative as possible. I value other people's experience and learn from others all the time - even my students.
That advice nips the whole issue in the bud, and gives a budding shaver a chance to learn to appreciate any differences any new product may bring. Otherwise the constant changing up of rotation deprives a noobie of forming a solid base of experience by which to judge any new gear that comes into the den.
Exactly the kind of thing that I think would be helpful for new shavers to know. And I do plan to do the distinction that you did between clinical and non-clinical levels of the potential problem. Although, as with anything, there is a big ol grey area in between those two.
Thanks @HMan
 
Lot's of good info and thoughts on here. I have been contacted through PM for advice/opinions on soaps and razors.
That is a good way for "New Guys" to get "guidance". Without putting it out there on the forum. I have shared my mistakes and success's through those PM's in the hopes to keep others from having regrets.
The soap sample pass around. And the various razor pass arounds could be a method of quenching the desire to accumulate soaps and razors. When I got the soap pass around. I probably went more than a month just trying all the samples I picked out. All for the cost a Medium Flat Rate USPS box.
Others that have participated in the razor pass arounds and gotten try out rare/expensive/unobtainium razors. For very little $ (cost of shipping)
Many times once I get to try something. One of three things happens.
1. I find out I don't like/want the thing. 2. I like it. But not enough to buy. 3. I want it and then plan on how/when I will get it.
The biggest change for me. From getting to try all the soaps particularly. Is now I have become much more picky. Which also helps my SAD.
The only negative to this is. If you want them all after you test them out and are disappointed if/when your budget does not make that possible.
Our site is a great place to explore our hobby. And try out lots of things. If you take advantage of the opportunities. And sometimes things just show up in your mailbox. Just because you ask a question. :eek:
Love this place.
Fluffy
 
I really like the pass arounds for the same reason. I am pretty stable in my brush and razor purchases. But the soap pass around was really helpful for me to test performance and scent profiles, saving me a ton of money in blind purchases.
 
Yes, I would add that I am guilty of trying to find "THE BEST __________________" or finding a scent that is perfect for me. My wife jokes about me spending 30 minutes in front of the barbecue sauce section at the grocery store because I am trying to find the BEST one. I can order a sushi roll that I love, but then I will not order it for awhile because I want to work my way through the roll list (nothing wrong with that BTW). My wife on the other hand will order the same thing over and over. I am always, "I wonder if there is something I would like even better?" I guess that is a form of FOMO.
You should check out Barry Schwartz and his Paradox of Choice experiments. I've done a lot of research on that, and because of what I've learned, I look for ways to limit my own choices. There are a couple of vendors that I don't approve of the way they do business, so I don't even need to look at their products. I've decided I'm not buying Zamak anymore. I'll go with vintage and more modern, rugged materials. I know I like pretty aggressive razors, so I don't even bother thinking about medium to mild stuff. I've discovered what I like in my knot types and settings, so I stopped even looking at anything else. I limit my soap purchases to my favorite 3-5 brands that fit my value criteria, and I ignore everything else. Basically, I look for ways to limit my choice.

I've also done sabbaticals and I've taken breaks from the forums a few times to cool off. While I know it's not the intent, just like social media, the forums can foster discontent if you aren't careful.

Passarounds are awesome for making educated decisions, but they can also fuel the discontent.

I'm a Dave Ramsey / Biblical Money Management proponent, so I think everyone should give first, save second, then live on the rest. If you carry any non-mortgage debt, then I believe you would be better served to limit your purchases until all of that's paid off. I took this advice myself for 2.5 years. Now, my wife and I each have a small personal spending budget every month. We get to do whatever we want with that money, so there's no guilt in indulging a bit. Before COVID, most of my budget went to coffee and lunch meetups with friends. Since those have been put on hold for 4 months, I was able to save up and purchase a Rex Ambassador. There was a time in my life when I never would have seen myself ever spending that much money on a razor. But I used one in a passaround and enjoyed it enough to save up for one.

FOMO is real, and 95% of the internet and other media is geared toward driving discontentment. Our entire economy is built around consumption. The FED freaks out when people start saving more money. How is that rational? If people had been saving more in the past (including the businesses) then they wouldn't be having such a hard time riding out this current pandemic. I understand that sometimes bad things happen to good people. But I think many Americans dig their own holes and then blame the government when they get stuck in them.

Ok, off my soapbox, now. I'm going to go enjoy a nice relaxing shave with my new Ambassador now.
 
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