Has anyone smelled/tried/owned Farina 1709 EdC?

[JanJosh]

Essentially nothing else to add. I'm referring to the ORIGINAL Johann Farina 1709 Eau de Cologne, NOT the Jean-Marie Farina EdC that's distributed by Roger & Gallet, nor the much renowned 4711 EdC.

 

[MarkB]

That's a new one to me.

 

[JanJosh]

That's a new one to me.

Oh Mark...

Okay! So to really dumb down Farina and why it matters:

Farina, the brand, was established in 1709 by Johann Maria Farina and his brother, Johann Baptiste Farina (who did the business side of things), in 1709. In true, true historical terms, he's the dude who without any doubt INVENTED Eau de Cologne. That was the name OF THE FRAGRANCE, because it smelled like Italy and he named it after the town Cologne in Germany, where he invented it. Supposedly this may be the truer fragrance that was worn by and adored by the elites of Europe, like Napoleon. Historical records show that all famous figures wore a fragrance simply called "Eau de Cologne" with no brands or special names attached, so it could've been a small number of different formulas with this one being the most possible.

4711 is, by all true accounts, a clone/duplicate/knockoff of Farina. It has been a rival and pain in the neck of Farina for decades, having come out in 1792 and was ALSO established in Cologne, Germany. Literally up the damn street! 4711 is literally named after the BUILDING NUMBER that was given to them after Napoleon invaded and forced the buildings to be numbered. How they stayed alive and became significant is that they sold their stuff at a fraction to Farina. Farina appealed to the Elites, and 4711 said "that smells pretty nice, let's adjust that and get everyone to try it" so everyone was able to get ahold of it. That model is kept to this day as you can find 4711 EVERYWHERE with the small issue of some fragrances being Euro exclusive. 2nd reason they survived was crazy marketing and the homosexual underground. Yeah, not kidding. 4711 was worn heavily by Gay men and was a subtle hint to others who knew, they practically bathed in it, used it as aftershave, cologne, washed their hands, etc. And marketing was crazy too, with it being used as gifts and remedies and to women all over Europe.

But then, there's 2 other factors here. Buckle up.

So there's Farina 1709, the original brand still kept by the family to this day, then their clone and rival 4711. What followed next was really interesting.

In 1806, Jean-Marie Farina, a decendant of the Farina family (grandson of Baptiste I belive), sets up a boutique in Paris, France. Johann Maria died childless, so the company was kept by his brother, Baptiste, and held the lineage up to now for about 9 generations. Somewhere in the middle of that, I believe his grandson had taken the formula with him and started selling his own eau de cologne while in france and was claiming to be the sole perfumer of Napoleon (ugh not this again) with the apparent "original" formula. Yeah, another closely guarded secret or whatever, right? But then in 1840, he decides to retire and go to Italy, but not before selling his company AND THE FORMULA to the Collas family, owned by Jacques and Elizabeth Collas, at an undisclosed amount, to then be used to set up their son, Léonce, in business. But then clearly this didn't work out in the long run because then in 1862, Armand Roger and Charles Gallet (yes, THE Roger & Gallet) whom were brothers-in-law and business partners, come in and buys the Farina Paris brand and rights for 200k francs! Then they lie to you and say otherwise that it was an adaptation of the supposedly famed "Aqua Mirabilis" from Italy made by one Giovanni Paolo Feminis in 1693, which was a mere fragrant medicinal water (something more akin to 4711. They even still claim you could drink 4711 and it has benefits, but I don't know about that!). They say that Jean-Marie Farina "inherited" this formula and adapted it to a modern remedy, but they don't mention the damn 1709 era and are making up fanfic so they don't have to deal with the Farina estate. They lie and claim they, too, "inherited" this formula, even though historical and business documents argue against this and they've been in legal battles over the name and formula, which is why if you research the notes, it's almost exactly the same from R&G EdC and 1709 EdC, but R&G added extra stuff, not only for depth, but to not get legally screwed because Farina buys the name and formula back, but allows R&G to use the name Jean-Marie Farina on the altered formula, which has changed 2 or 3 times since 1806. What's also funny is that they even use a similar bottle design and have his name on the front in the same cursive as Johann Farina's bottle. Those pesky French huh?

The issue with Farina is that this brand literally has region locked itself to Germany and small parts of Europe, but mostly in Boutiques. What sets it apart is that the formula has been truly kept as well as it could to the original for over 300 years, great! Problem is it costs at least 90 bucks usd plus 80 bucks shipping. That makes this ridiculous to try to acquire and makes it enigmatic and hard to acquire and sample.

Damn, I love fragrance history.

 

[JanJosh]

I didn't even get to mention the whole Chardin affair and the Florida water drama and how Guerlain fits into the middle of all this

 

[JanJosh]

Point is has anyone smelled and experienced 1709 and how does it compare? I mean, if I show you these notes, can anyone tell me which is which without Google?

Also I dare say if this was all combined into one EdC I'm sure it would be amazing, for the record

 

[Spider]

Yeah, not kidding. 4711 was worn heavily by Gay men and was a subtle hint to others who knew, they practically bathed in it, used it as aftershave, cologne, washed their hands, etc

They would have to apply it constantly because the scent disappears 10 minutes (or less) after you apply it.

 

[JanJosh]

They would have to apply it constantly because the scent disappears 10 minutes (or less) after you apply it.

My good sir. Besides the potential of formulation and strength differences over the years, observe the pocket watch bottle of old

Even Farina did it.

4711 has made various sizes and shapes for bottles in all sorts of travel and carry. I mean, damn it, Napoleon reportedly kept vials in his boots and coat pockets to apply and drink when he needed. This stuff was able to be EVERYWHERE at any moment.

 

[Spider]

4711 has made various sizes and shapes for bottles in all sorts of travel and carry.

Oh I know, I have several.

 

[JanJosh]

Let's not forget they have literal 4711 fountains outside their HQ Store in Germany