Ethos Grooming Essentials Customer Poll ( Preferred types of Packaging )

[Granite.Glasser]

Hey guys,

I found this 18-bolt vacuum seal container certified by Nation Laboratories as suitable for the storage of Plutonium 239.
It might be worthy of holding some premium ETHOS product! ... or maybe not?

All fun aside and as quite a few others have stated, container appeal is important to a degree but pales in comparison to the amazing contents therein!

 

[slantman]

I love glass jars. Years ago everything came in glass. Glass jars are re-cyclable over and over again. If you wash them out there is no lingering smell. Plastic on the other hand gets destroyed. If you go with glass jars they can be used again with soap refills.

 

[ShaveMD]

Frank, as you know, once I started using Ethos i PIF'd almost all my soaps and AS and most of them would be considered by most people as higher end. I did that because your product works so well for me, and I am willing to pay for a quality product with quality ingredients. Your ingredients are costly, and I agree with AJ that those costs will definitely increase with this worldwide pandemic so I like a nice jar but what I am really paying for is the great quality soap and AS that works so well for me. Glass is beautiful and reusable but also heavy (shipping costs) and can drop with wet hands and shatter in my bathroom, so I say go for one of the other 2 and I will still buy it for the product inside because thats what is giving me great shaves and better feeling skin ( for the Mrs ) afterward.

 

[Dragonsbeard]

Frank just a thought,
Did you try and contact Timeless ?
They also have a plastic injection business , not exactly sure what that means and what they do there but I know they make containers of some sort

Hi Steve

I know from experience that injection molds can be very costly and more expensive than blow molds. I will call Timeless as I know the owners pretty well but I highly doubt they will build a mold for a few hundred bottle purchase but worth a phone call for sure and thank you for the idea my friend!

I have been thinking Frank @Dragonsbeard about "special" soaps that I have purchased or seen for sale for $40-70 (SV, MdC, Pannacremma not to mention Sebum around $200) which all have either less or not as impressive ingredients in their products - if you need to have a slightly more expensive packaging that should not be an issue. I suspect that with the current world economic situation your ingredients (as previously discussed in other posts) can only increase in price so if the packaging is slightly more it will be offset by both the small price increase for your "high quality" product. Also any current price increases now will counter any future ingredient price inflation through the supply chain. Whatever you do I, for one, am looking forward to your next release.

Thank you AJ and some good points. As you probably know from the price increase in groceries especially meats the same thing is happening in all ingredients and packaging. Ingredients depending on their bases I've used not only in my ETHOS line but my Alcame hair care products and products I'm developing for the CBD company there has been a gradual price increase in most all ingredients. I agree with you on the whole European soap makers point. I've been thinking this for a while. Some folks will lay out like you said $40 up to $70 for products from Italy and France without hesitation with the perception that because they come from their better than US Artisan soap makers. In the case of MDC and I have a lot of respect for that company and have talked with them on the phone a few times as like I mentioned they were nice enough to share their jar manufacture with me. With that said they also have been making soap for many years and they age their soaps like 6 months which certainly helps to increase the performance of even the basic formula that their soap is so what you are buying is the years of experience they have in soap making, a large jar of shave soap that lasts for a long time which is partially due to the aging and the expensive PETG jar and the shipping costs to the US. So yes I'm saying this with confidence that I know I'm using more expensive ingredients in much more complicated formulas but like many US soap makers I was afraid to charge those prices especially being a new brand but I've come to a conclusion I need to up my prices not only because of the packaging although right now that is the main reason as I just did the figures and here is the difference between the current jar I'm using and the PETG jar or the Glass jar if I import it from Italy. I'm looking at 8 times the cost of what I'm paying now for either one. I will say I will feel a lot more confident in either of those container as far as not having issues with my products being safe and stable in the jars. I'm not going to lie from the feedback I"m getting not only in this thread but from Shaving friends that have reached out to me I"m beginning to lean more towards the PETG jar as it takes away 2 concerns. One being the fact that if it drops being glass it will shatter and someone could cut themselves and also the fact that shipping costs will be considerably higher to both myself when purchasing the bottles because of weight and that will be magnified because they would be shipping from overseas so yeah in the end the cost to ship a finished product to a customer would also increase so basically they'd be paying a higher price not only for the product but to get it shipped to them because of the weight difference and in fact when I go into work I'm going to fill both jars and do a test " ship to a customer " jar pf shave soap using both the PETG and the Glass jar and see exactly how much more it would cost based on weight. So far I have kept my prices at what I feel a fair rate based on ingredients and most of my fragrances/scents have been somewhat reasonable but for example when I make the Dragonsbeard beta version just based on the new added ingredients, the increase in scent level of my most expensive aroma to date ( Well aside from the Mysore Sandalwood ) the price of that soap will be my highest priced soap to date and will retail at around $45 to $48 as I've been doing the math and thankfully that is being put in a PET black jar that doesn't cost as much as the PETG jar otherwise that would be $50 for sure. I said when I first launched out that I'm going to have honest pricing based on what's in the bottle/jar and that mind set has not changed and in a way I'm glad I've found out early on in this brands short life span about the packaging becasue from here on I don't think I'll have a problem with that and can just focus on making new formulas. My brand may not be for everyone based on price but the feedback I"m getting from most of my customers has been very positive.

Frank, as you know, once I started using Ethos i PIF'd almost all my soaps and AS and most of them would be considered by most people as higher end. I did that because your product works so well for me, and I am willing to pay for a quality product with quality ingredients. Your ingredients are costly, and I agree with AJ that those costs will definitely increase with this worldwide pandemic so I like a nice jar but what I am really paying for is the great quality soap and AS that works so well for me. Glass is beautiful and reusable but also heavy (shipping costs) and can drop with wet hands and shatter in my bathroom, so I say go for one of the other 2 and I will still buy it for the product inside because thats what is giving me great shaves and better feeling skin ( for the Mrs ) afterward.

HAHA gotta keep them Misses happy! Thank you Mark for the kind words about the ETHOS products you use and as I mentioned up in my last response to AJ there certainly has been an increase in ingredient costs and from experience other than gasoline I very rarely see cost of materials or food go back down once the prices have gone up. It would great but I guess we will have to wait and see. On the Glass I think everyone's input on glass breaking or the increase in weight in relation to shipping costs definately has me heavily leaning towards the PETG jar. The 8 fold more costly really does bother me and I'm hoping that maybe I can in the future buy it direct from Italy using tanker shipping prices to get the jars over here instead of the ridiculous air shipping costs. I know that you have spent more on soaps from Euro soap companies than mine and I'm glad ETHOS is working for your skin type so thank you for the kind and encouraging words my friend.

Thanks guys for your input!

 

[AJSharp]

Frank, I think we can all appreciate your honesty and transparency but what are you doing posting at 4:14 AM as we all know you are an east coast (USA) dude. Don't you ever sleep ... we don't want you to mix up those ingredients and put your morning prune juice into a lavender soap base

 

[Dragonsbeard]

UPDATE:

So I didn't have a lot of time to make a strong decison and after much thought and input from this poll that @BarberDave was so kind to help me put up I've decided to go with the PETG jar. You all know I said right from the start that I love the idea of being in glass but the shipping costs added to the risk of jars not only breaking on my customers but also breaking on the way over from Italy on their long journey to my warehouse in NY. Both options are expensive and knowing that my current jars are one 8th the cost of these PETG jars is killing me to think about but I can't be buying jars that keep cracking. Just so you know on this last batch of the Melange Di Agrume which I made enough for 100 jars I lost 32 to cracks and also the time it took to scoop out the soap and put it in a new jar. So not only did I lose money on the 32 that cracked I lost time where I could have been making another product or working on the website or shipping out customers orders. I did it and honestly I feel better knowing I'll be in a high quality jar that has stood the test of time. Yes this Jar will reflect in the final price of my soaps moving forward but you won't feel that until after both the Lavender Supreme and the Melange Di Agrume are released and the Dragonsbeard which comes in a Black Jar.

So the PETG won the poll vote also in case anyone was wondering.

 

[mrdoug]

UPDATE:

So I didn't have a lot of time to make a strong decison and after much thought and input from this poll that @BarberDave was so kind to help me put up I've decided to go with the PETG jar. You all know I said right from the start that I love the idea of being in glass but the shipping costs added to the risk of jars not only breaking on my customers but also breaking on the way over from Italy on their long journey to my warehouse in NY. Both options are expensive and knowing that my current jars are one 8th the cost of these PETG jars is killing me to think about but I can't be buying jars that keep cracking. Just so you know on this last batch of the Melange Di Agrume which I made enough for 100 jars I lost 32 to cracks and also the time it took to scoop out the soap and put it in a new jar. So not only did I lose money on the 32 that cracked I lost time where I could have been making another product or working on the website or shipping out customers orders. I did it and honestly I feel better knowing I'll be in a high quality jar that has stood the test of time. Yes this Jar will reflect in the final price of my soaps moving forward but you won't feel that until after both the Lavender Supreme and the Melange Di Agrume are released and the Dragonsbeard which comes in a Black Jar.

So the PETG won the poll vote also in case anyone was wondering.


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That is absolutely one classy looking Jar. I think with the comfort of it being safe(r), everyone will be happy.

Your commitment to perfection in this is impressive Frank.

So, now it's time to release these soaps?!? Lol.

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[GearNoir]

Still looks great Frank! Very chic!

 

[woodpusher]

It'll still hurt when my wife throws it at me for buying too much stuff; it just won't break, right?

 

[NurseDave]

It'll still hurt when my wife throws it at me for buying too much stuff; it just won't break, right?

You'll be the first to know

 

[Dragonsbeard]

That is absolutely one classy looking Jar. I think with the comfort of it being safe(r), everyone will be happy.

Your commitment to perfection in this is impressive Frank.

So, now it's time to release these soaps?!? Lol.

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Still looks great Frank! Very chic!

Thank you my friends I think I can finally stop obsessing over this. Going back and forth and I’ll admit loosing a little sleep over this as @AJSharp pointed out in a post.

As far as the soap release we’re probably looking at next Tuesday or Wednesday at the latest.
Last batch in the original jar.

 

[Dragonsbeard]

Ouch !! I can guarantee that it will hurt as it’s is one strong jar! Better hide it so it can’t be used against you in times of war!

 

[juijitsu2000]

I think it is best to get opinions from customers or potential customers so this is why I'm conducting this brief poll.

Here is my issue and my solution to the issue. So anyone who has one of my Shave soaps knows the plastic jar it comes in is a little more costly than the jar most soaps come in which are 100mm low profile jars and made of HDPE and are very inexpensive to buy especially if bought in larger numbers. I made a decision a while back that I wanted to be in a different jar and that hasn't changed so please I ask of you to not try to convince me that packaging doesn't matter to you and why don't I just use what most companies use since they are so easy to get. I have to feel good about what my products go in and the way it represents the ETHOS brand and I'll thank you ahead of time for responding with that in mind.

So currently I'm using a Styrene clear plastic jar that slightly resembles the MDC jar as that is what I wanted to use and MDC was at the time kind enough to share the company that they get their current jars from. The problem at the time wasn't the jar as I got a decent price from the manufacture as these jars are not cheap at all as they are made of PETG Crystalline plastic and are heavy duty and yet look very much like glass. Mine jars are close but when put side by side you can see and feel the difference.

Here is my problem as you all probably know soap is heated up to high tempatures and in the process I've had many of them crack because Styrene is very brittle so not only is it a major PITA to have to scoop out the soap and put it in a good jar but it wastes a lot of time as well where I could be working on other products, filling orders etc. This last batch was the worst ever and so many more cracked than before so I have my work cut out for me to transfer all the soap that were is a jar that cracked to one that doesn't have one. I've also had a few customers have their jar crack in transit to them especially before I started to put a " Fragile Handle With Care " sticker on each package I ship out now but I know that if dropped on lets say a tile floor it could crack easily. Now the good news is it is the nature of the Styrene plastic to crack but the crack doesn't go all the way through to were is reaches the product inside. It's just a surface crack but to me it doesn't look good and some cracks are worse than others.

So I'm at a point where I've made a decision to change jars as I'm beginning to run low and I'm going to need to order more jars and I have 3 choices and 3 choices only.

1. Is the exact same jar that MDC comes in which I can now get in the USA as one company is carrying it but the cost is more than 4 times what I'm paying for my current jars. So if I were to switch to these jars with the cost of them and the cost of my ingredients I'd be forced to increase the price of my soaps by no less then $2.00 to $3.00 a jar and that would be with me absorbing some of the cost at mine end. So for example the Lavender Supreme shave soap that is currently $36 a jar now would go up to $38 to $39 a jar. This is just taking in the increased cost of the jar. As you may have notice a lot of things have gone up in price. Meats and other food items and I'm sure it's because of what this country has gone through but its happening across the boards as ingredients and packaging have also gone up right across the boards so who knows where that's going and how that will effect the price of products moving forward. So if I go with the Crystalline PETG jar prices will go up but so will the quality of the jars my products come in but still in plastic.

2. The other option is to put my product in Glass. it is impossible to find a jar that is the same low profile jar with a 89/400 opening which is what I'm using now and for reference what MDC also used to use back a couple of years ago. I can get a better price on them than the plastic PETG jar but again these can not be found in the USA but in Italy. My big challenge is the shipping to the USA as the company only ships Fedex air which brings the cost to more than double what the jar costs. The CBD company I do R&D for is a world wide company and they ship all over. If I go through them they can issue out a pick up and it can be shipped by a cargo ship which is less expensive but does take longer to get here but since my Dragonsbeard soap is next in line and comes in a completely different jar I have the time to wait for them to get here. I've always liked the idea of my products being in glass as its a much more staple environment for all the natural ingredients I use in my products. The price of a glass jar will also increase the price of my soaps by $2.00 as I've done the math and that's saying I can get it here through cheaper shipping. If not it' would be even more expensive than the PETG jar I mentioned above.

3. The other option I have is using a natural Polypropylene jar which is the exact same jar as mine which comes in this different plastic. It looks different as is is a natural finish which looks kind of frosted so you can see through it but it's not crystal clear. The price is the same as the jars I'm currently using so it would not effect the price of the shave soaps but it still has to be tested with heat. I'm not as crazy about the way it looks but with the brushed aluminum lids that are on my jars which btw are also not cheap but gives the jar a better look than if I used the matching lid you can get for it in ether black, white or the natural finish like the jar which to me doesn't fit the image of the company as well as the Glass or PETG

Photos of choices to follow

So going Left to right in the photo below the Glass jar is first followed by the PTEG Crystalline plastic jar and then for comparisons is the Styrene plastic jar I’m currently using and then on the far right is the Polypropylene jar with is easy to spot with its natural finish.
in following photos you can see how the glass jar compares to the PETG as both have a think bottom. Next is the PETG compared to my jar I’m using and then my jar compared to the Polypropylene jar. Then the individual photos of all 4 of them.
I’d really appreciate as many votes as possible in the poll
Thank you all so much!



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Hi,You have great products but as far as I'm concerned whatever is the most economical for us to buy and for you to make some money.You have a business to run!Eugene Andersen

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