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When's Next?

Brew

Shave Enthusiast
How do you guys know when to move to the next hone in your progression? I know many of us hone by "feel." But what is it that you look for or "feel" that says to you, "next!"?

For me, its if the blade feels like its moving evenly across the stone and I can see it pushing swarf and then a sheen of almost clear water up the hone, in front of the edge, in a relatively even fashion. I don't know if that's really a good sign, or what it's really a sign of, but it's what I do.

I'd love to know if any of you have seen what I'm describing, and what your "tells" are.
 
I am still finding my way on the stones, but what you are describing is what I tried yesterday on a new to me razor.

Most of my razors were originally honed on film with counted laps. Then my two first on stones, I honed until the blade was trying to stick to the hone. Then I would move up. I am curious how the one I honed yesterday will shave.
 
I have very poor feeling in my hands, so I go by looks. It took me a lot of effort just to get where I wasn't using too much pressure because I couldn't really feel the feedback that well.
So I rely strongly on my loupe and being able to determine the differences in the scratch patterns.
 
I have to give you a ton of props @Brew for a well reasoned approach for why/how you know to move on to the next stone in progression. Your thought process is something that, if it were followed by others, would most likely lead to success more often than not. I have honed all of my hundred razors successfully at least once and have been able to compare my “work” to that done by others (via shave test and visually) and can confidently say “I can hone a razor well enough to be a very comfortable and lasting shaver”. I also know others have had me hone razors for them and liked the results. ...That’s said, I KNOW my technique is not something that I consider textbook, and it isn’t always pretty (buts improved a whole lot over time). I have always been heavy handed compared to others but I’ve adapted over time and learned which stones I can and can’t use. I have used synthetic or other, known single grit stones with good results but get the best results and most enjoyment from Coticule’s with slurry stones and hard slate finishers like surgical ark or jasper. I get very serviceable and enjoyable results from a coticule, a diamond pasted strop and my old firehouse/leather strop. I have even gotten great praise from my work done on the welsh slate trio. I’ve also enjoyed using vintage barber hones even though they produce different quality edges that the finer slate edges.

As far as was I look forI can’t say I focus on swarf (mostly because I don’t see much) but I do watch the undercut to make sure the edge is undercutting evenly at all stages. I usually do a slurry dilution progression on a single stone rather than changing from stone to stone so my process is mostly to start by counting strokes (usually something like 50 laps) before diluting the slurry by a drop or two but sometime I will get a feel that should stay longer or dilute earlier. A cool feature of coticule slurry is that it thickens when it mixes with swarf so you do get a visual cue based on the slurry but it’s different from stone to stone. If I’m honing with a light slurry or only water I definitely watch the water wave and undercut but I also feel for how the blade is moving across the stone. i feel for subtle feedback that might be telling me there is a rough spot needing more work, if that spot doesn’t smooth out on water only I go back a step or start over. As I go forward on water only o feel for increased adhesion, the blade starts to get so polished it will feel like it’s sticking to the stone. For this to happen you have to have a lighter touch (my ham fisted approach early on sometimes hides or prevents this sticky polished effect) and your stone needs to be clean so running water might be needed.

I should add a caveat to my “I don’t focus on swarf” statement. I may not focus on the swarf movement, because it’s all muddled up in the slurry, but I do watch to be sure the swarf is cutting and darkening with swarf. If the swarf is not getting dark I will take the razor to a firehouse strop for 50-100 laps, I’ve found stropping on firehouse between stones or intermittently as I hone does a killer job of removing fin edges that kill a honing session. I DEFINITELY strop between stones if I’m using more than one coticule or finishing on a surgical ark or jasper.

I can’t help but think I could/should stay on one each stage longer than I do ...but then I wonder if I’m staying on any single stage longer than I should, undoing the work I have done. My scientific mind says I should stay on each progressively higher grit longer than the one previously...but that same mi d reminds me that the “razor edge” we are talking about gets smaller and smaller as we go and is ultimately measured in microns. Just how long can/should it take to hone that edge to perfection? The visible bevel is just window dressing but it tells us a lot about how that razors edge might look.
 
Really great detail, Chris, thank you. I only use Naniwas. When I started to hone I figured they'd minimize some of the variables other hones present. I'm thinking more "variables" present opportunities for more and different tells.
 
I imagine each type or brand of stone has a particular character or speed that needs to be learned and respected in order to get good results. I know different coticules are said to be fast or slow and I have experienced that on some of my own regardless of how firm my pressure or how thick the slurry. Aside from how fast the stone works the flow front really tells a lot about the different part of the edge if you let it, that’s why I like the way you desribed your process Larry. Knowing how fast or slow your stone is informs the number of laps you might do between dilutions or between stones but at some point you are going to need to start noticing the finer details, like how the swarf is moving in front of the blade and the wave is moving in front of the swarf because that tells you whether your edge is sharp or razor sharp.

I prefer the tomato skin cut test to verify the bevel but am starting to be able to feel with my thumb pad if a bevel is set, I can NOT see u dear magnification if the bevel is set but I can see that the edge is clean and straight. I can not use light refraction to do anything more than verify the edge is clean and straight with no large imperfections. I regularly use my wife’s hair to test edge keenness after honing or stropping, it is the best indicator I have as it will pop, cut, hang or fail based on edge condition.
 
So far my experience has been with my set of Nortons and my natural finisher of unknown composition. Unless i am working with a blade with a known geometry issue i just watch the bevel formation on my 1k. I will check with a loop if i am unsure if i'm hitting the entire edge but i tend to do about 40-50 laps and then check the edge with the thumb pad test. I have learned over time what it should feel like to me. if it passes that i will test the full edge on the back of my hand to verify i all removes hair. after that i just make sure that as i move up in grit i can see all the previous grit scratches are gone before i move to the next since after the bevel is set all you are really doing is polishing the edge to have finer and finer serrations. the bevel is normally a good indicator of when i am done with that hone. I also strop on my jeans before each test and between each hone. There is a bit of feel involved but i haven't really nailed that down because each razor has a bit of a different feel compared to others.

All that being said i am about to dive headfirst in to honing with a coti so we will see what i learn in that process.

as for test shaves, i am normally pretty confident that my edge will be good by the time i am done honing but i always like to do a test shave if i'm honing for someone else because I just can't stand the idea of sending a bad edge to someone because i didn't realize there was something out of the ordinary going on that i missed, but it's easy enough to test a couple razors per shave if needed so no big deal there.
 
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