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They don't go quietly...and yet they are still not heard

dangerousdon

dangerousdon

"I am Udderly Insufferable”
Veteran
Concierge Emeritus
My wife forwarded me the following article last night...

Army's 'Captain America' dies by suicide after nearly a dozen combat tours

It's one of probably thousands of articles that get posted, printed, and only sometimes read. There is probably more awareness about suicide among servicemembers now than there has ever been. But is it really enough?

Most of you all know that I am a Veteran. I was actually a peacetime servicemember serving in the Marine Corps during the 90s. I am also a War Time Veteran. A coupe years after my enlistment with the Marine Corps, I joined the Louisiana Army National Guard so I could get Tuition Exemption for college. A few years later I found myself deployed to Afghanistan.

During my time in the service, I have had the pleasure of knowing some of the best people I have ever had the privilege of knowing. I can think back on all those who I remember. I had some good times, some bad times, and some really great times. I have wonderful memories of my buddies. Of all those I have known...off the top of my head...I can think of four of my buddies that have committed suicide. If I think harder...I can probably think of more. Four servicemen! There are some people who go their entire lives without knowing a soul who has taken their life. I know at least four.

I may have posted this before...but one of these buddies I had the privilege of serving with was a man named Travis Twiggs. Ironically, Travis was from New Orleans, but I met and served with him in Hawaii. This man was by all accounts A Marine's Marine. Did six tours to Iraq and Afghanistan as a Marine Infantryman. He battled with PTSD in a very serious way. In the end, he took his brother's life and then his own. If you want to read his entire story, check out the link bellow.

The Last Tour: A decorated marine’s war within.

I don't want to ever confuse my situation with those of Mr. Twiggs and countless other servicemen and women who fight their demons every day. I have never been diagnosed with PTSD. I was only in a combat zone for one deployment. I did not experience the constant fire fights or ambushes that some dealt with. My situation was different than that of an Infantryman. That being said...I definitely had my own situations and dealings with the enemies that, well, I will just say are unique. My wife says that I really should have seen someone after my deployment. And I don't disagree with her.

Here is where I let you all know of the issues servicemembers deal with.

It was widely accepted...whether it was stated or implied...that if you had an issue and needed to see someone on the mental health side..."They" would yank your security clearance. This notion existed, at least within the rank and file, up until I got out of the service in 2011.

If you were to get help after your service, help is not easily accessible. Whether through the VA or privately...it is hard (or at least the perception is that it is hard) to receive help.

If you get help through the VA...you are not getting good care. This is a perception thing...because I actually think the VA has some good people that work there. But like anything...there are always bad apples. But the VA wasn't always this way. A perception that hasn't been shrugged off yet.

When I did get back from Afghanistan, the powers that be gave us a choice to go through the assessments to determine if we had a disability. BUT...they also said that this would delay us significantly from going home. Guess how many people from my unit stayed to be assessed? Zilcho!

Okay...I could go on and on and on. But I won't. And I am sure that there are other Veterans on this forum who have their experiences also. I encourage you all to share them.

Recognition of PTSD is probably better now than it ever has been. But the system is still broken. Veterans and Servicemen and Servicewomen are taking their lives everyday. There is some debate as to exactly how many are taking their own lives. I think the latest study actually has 17 veterans a day who commit suicide. Fifteen...22...17...who cares..it is way too many.

I am not sure what I want to accomplish with this thread. I guess I just want to start a dialogue on a forum I am comfortable with and with people who I believe will understand. We have a lot of Veterans and some service members on TSC. I encourage you all to comment on your experiences here in this thread. I want others to know that each servicemember goes through something different. We have some who have been in the thick of it. And there are others who may not have been in a million fire fights...but their experiences lead to something all the same. A heightened sense of awareness is what I called it. But what it was...was a constant increase of adrenalin and cortisol (as well as other hormone production) stimulated by situations that lead to an action creating a fight or flight response. When you come home from deployment or war...these just don't automatically go away. You start to wonder if your life has the same sense of purpose that you once had. What is the point of it all? I can't do anything right? My friends and family look at me different. There is nothing I can do to make my life better. These were some of the things I went through. Others probably had different experiences or maybe the same.

Anyway...if any of you who read this just want to talk...about something...or anything. I am here. PM me and we can exchange phone numbers or emails addresses...or keep it in the PM. I am not a therapist or a counselor. I am just a friend who has an ear to lend.

Okay...I am done for now. If you feel like posting your experiences or a family or friend's experience...please do so.
 
Strong post Don. Neither @Cvargo nor Myself have served but we both have a deep sense of patriotism and have been involved in veterans organizations for quite some time (he in his way and me in mine, we never did anything together). This only means we have had the opportunity to meet, know and at times, help service men and women of all ages and backgrounds...a real blessing. I myself have had the fortune to have been able to charter my Boy Scout troop through the local American a Legion post so MY boys (every boy from my troop) all had plenty of regular interaction with the Legion & VFW members. Many of my scouts developed great relationships with those guys that have served them well as they entered adulthood.

Since this thread is likely to garner many responses and you offered others a chance to respond with what may be very personal stories I wanted to remind everyone that unless we take measures to make this thread unviewable by non-members, everything posted here will be able to be seen by visitors and should be considered a public post. IF you post something in the heat of the moment and feel afterwards you shouldn’t have please PM @The Shaving Cadre Owners to have the post modified/edited.

AND: Let’s avoid getting into the advice and counseling type of discussions here, those types of discussions are VERY important and really aren’t the kind of thing armchair shavers like us deal in. DON’T give it here. If you read someone’s post and think they need to hear something reach out by PM and offer to connect.
 
CBLindsay said:
Strong post Don. Neither @Cvargo nor Myself have served but we both have a deep sense of patriotism and have been involved in veterans organizations for quite some time (he in his way and me in mine, we never did anything together). This only means we have had the opportunity to meet, know and at times, help service men and women of all ages and backgrounds...a real blessing. I myself have had the fortune to have been able to charter my Boy Scout troop through the local American a Legion post so MY boys (every boy from my troop) all had plenty of regular interaction with the Legion & VFW members. Many of my scouts developed great relationships with those guys that have served them well as they entered adulthood.

Since this thread is likely to garner many responses and you offered others a chance to respond with what may be very personal stories I wanted to remind everyone that unless we take measures to make this thread unviewable by non-members, everything posted here will be able to be seen by visitors and should be considered a public post. IF you post something in the heat of the moment and feel afterwards you shouldn’t have please PM @The Shaving Cadre Owners to have the post modified/edited.
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Thanks Chris! Yeah...I should have posted something to that effect. This is more of just a way to get a conversation started. And my no means do I want to encourage anyone to post something that they are not willing to post about publicly. This is just a n issue that weighs deeply on my heart. And you never know who is going through what.

Thanks again Chris.
 
Don great post. Having not served I'll never fully understand the struggles. But I do know they are there. My cousin I grew up with and he served countless tours in the desert and now has a purple heart suffered immensely with PTSD. He lost his marriage and a lot of other friends. He finally listened to me and got some real help. He still has his ups and downs but he is a lot better now.

Thank you everyone for your service and if you need help please get it there are a lot of programs out there.
 
I'll add one more thing that perhaps those that serve/d could add something too. Like mentioned my cousin has a purple heart. When he received it the news made it out to be a big deal, and he wanted nothing to do with it. He accepted the award like a good soldier but while at his parents house after the ceremony he just handed the medal to his mom and said it was hers he wanted nothing to do with it.

My cousin is very open with me and we've talked alot about his time but Everytime the purple heart comes up he just shuts down.
 
My father was a first generation Navy SEAL in Vietnam. To this day I don't know what happened there, but he didn't come back the same, and as with countless others suffering from PTSD at that time, the marriage fell apart, and my side of the family, unbeknownst to me, told him never to see me again.

I only found this out a few years ago and it destroyed me. I was contacted by family on his side, but sadly, a couple of months after he passed. He did come out the other side, and went on to live a rich life. I feel a huge hole from not knowing him, I still feel like I'm trying to make him proud of me, as crazy as that might sound.
 
Thanks for starting this thread. I think there are a lot of vets including myself that will probably find comfort in this.. Also I would like to add a couple of things if that's okay. If you are a current service member or vet who may have been involved in an explosion or other accident while serving pleas remember TBI ( traumatic brain injuries ) are real and make sure if you are active duty to get the incident documented because it may cause you problems in the future... Yes if you have ever watched the show seal team this is an issue they discuss... Second I have also noticed that there are way to many former military members incarcerated.. Remember you can survive back in the world and don't have to break the laws of society.. Okay enough about that.. On to other stuff.. One of my biggest problems after i came home was fire crackers and cars backfiring.. I was and still am jumpy over those things but I try to remember that I'm not being shot at but at the same time with the way our society currently is I still make sure of my surroundings.... Being shot once was enough for me.... I know my emotions sometimes get the best of me but I'm trying to get a handle on that. That's why I like it here and I know that I sometimes probably tick some of you off or something but I enjoy the harmless banter and teasing/ jokes I see on here.. I have not been diagnosed either but know I have at least a mild form of PTSD also.. I wake from nightmares. I get nervous. I get upset or mad. But then I remember I'm here. I made it. I remember a lot didn't. We did..
 
HMan said:
My father was a first generation Navy SEAL in Vietnam. To this day I don't know what happened there, but he didn't come back the same, and as with countless others suffering from PTSD at that time, the marriage fell apart, and my side of the family, unbeknownst to me, told him never to see me again.

I only found this out a few years ago and it destroyed me. I was contacted by family on his side, but sadly, a couple of months after he passed. He did come out the other side, and went on to live a rich life. I feel a huge hole from not knowing him, I still feel like I'm trying to make him proud of me, as crazy as that might sound.
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That doesn't sound crazy at all... We all in a way want others to be proud of us.
 
Also I would like to add something else. Remember our families are going through this too with us. They might not have been there with us but they are seeing / suffering the aftermaths of what we went through too. Talk to them and make sure they are okay too. My wife and I have talked about stuff and she knows I am sorry if I get overly frustrated sometimes but it still puts her through a lot too.... She actually has someone that she talked with from MHS before covid hit and since this virus hit they call her about once a month to check in.. Our families suffer too so make sure they are okay too.. I didn't know she had a problem because of all this until I found out she had developed a drinking problem dealing with all the stress. She is better now and hasn't had a drink in years ... But I guess my point is although we may be suffering they are suffering too because they hate us suffering so talk to them and make sure they are okay too....
 
Nice thread Don. I pined over posting, as certain items I don't think about anymore. I would echo everything that has been stated and also the sentiments of what our families saw from us when we came back. This does not just apply to Special Operators, or those of us that saw combat it goes for all who have written the blank check. Those that know see that I proudly show the Green Feet and Lighting bolt, bled for it, saved countless Brothers, but lost more. NO ONE, except those who served can relate, and this is where the problem lies, our families try, dear God they try, but many times it is the bottom of a bottle, or other self deprecating actions can manifest. For those that have also been "Guests" of Foreign Entities, and have been "Tested" both physically and mentally it is even harder, as we consider ourselves tough, Special Tactics Trained, professionals, and invincible only to find out we are human. The Rub is we have to look at our loved ones, strangers, brothers and even fellow servicemen, with the thought..
"I can't tell them where I was"
"I can't tell them the Operations I was involved in"
"I may get a call in the middle of the Night, and have to just leave"
"I cannot tell them of the pain I endured at the hands of others, including unspeakable things"
" I cannot speak of things and must hold it in to be strong"
" I cannot explain why I wake up screaming, crying, punching, or worse grabbing for a weapon"
"I cannot explain why every bump in the night can be heard and reacted to"

Theses are things our family endures. It takes Years, Years, and Year to come to term, and for many of us we relace it with jokes, or other behavior that makes the pain go away after time. We still however get that look, when watching a movie, and something sparks that memory. All our families can do is look on, because we cant, we won't, talk about it.

Some of us get lucky and work through the demons, some do not and sometimes little items get to us. As @Jaro1069 mentioned, although once a Brother in Arms who can wear the three initials that end in "w" I made it home, and on Memorial Day, although their intentions are good, it drives me bats when someone "Thanks me for my Service" Kindly I remind them that "That Day" is for my brothers and Sisters both now and in the past that never saw the Coastline, the Mountains, the Forests, and the smiles of their families ever again, but from underneath a draped flag. It leaves some shocked, but at least it educates them. I could ramble on, and on, as I have discovered this thread has brought up items from the archives of my mind, which is probably a good thing.

Thanks Again @dangerousdon
 
Thanks for sharing @BarberDave !!! My intentions were definitely not to bring up memories and experiences that one has not reconciled...but only to bring awareness that there are people like you and I and other Members of the Cadre out there and that they may need more help now than ever.

Thank you again for sharing.
 
dangerousdon said:
Thanks for sharing @BarberDave !!! My intentions were definitely not to bring up memories and experiences that one has not reconciled...but only to bring awareness that there are people like you and I and other Members of the Cadre out there and that they may need more help now than ever.

Thank you again for sharing.
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I did not want to imply that Don, in fact the exact opposite, however it stirred up so stuff that needed to be dealt with, that had been locked up, but was leaking like a poison into the rest of my life, so now after holding on to certain parts for almost 20+ yrs of being out it is now all cleaned out, for that, It is a Thank You! Sometimes just putting paper to pen, or in this case, Fingers to Computer can be good therapy, as you can see the word that sometimes cannot be expressed.
 
Hearing others experiences shows us we are not alone. I mean I'm pretty good because on a scale some of my struggles are probably 1 or 2 at the most there are a lot of our brothers and sisters out there that on a scale of 1 to ten are a 20... I guess what gg ets me the most are the ones who never served who are always complaining about stuff...either what we did or should have done or...well I'm not gonna open that can of worms... You see I'm from our more recent combat situations. I know a lot of our older vets really struggled . we got parades they got spit on... That's another can I'm not gonna open either...
 
And on another note I needed to say that even though the people i mentioned complaining may get on my nerves, that is what we served for was so they could have the right to speak their opinion....but...then they say my opinion doesnt count and i need to think the same way they do..... but we served so everyone could have and speak their own opinions and so we dont all have to "toe the same line" of what others think so isnt that a contradiction when they say all our opinions matter as long as it is the same as theirs????? I DO NOT and AM NOT starting anything political I am just saying we fought so others could have the freedom they now enjoy...
 
For ALL my Non military FRIENDS out there, this may or may not help you understand those of us that served in the Military.

We Are Veterans.

We left home as teenagers for an unknown adventure.

We loved our country enough to defend it and protect it with our own lives.

We said goodbye to friends and family and everything we knew.

We learned the basics and then we scattered in the wind to the far corners of the Earth.

We found new friends and new family.

We became brothers and sisters regardless of color, race or creed.

We had plenty of good times, and plenty of bad times.

We didn’t get enough sleep.

We smoked and drank too much.

We picked up both good and bad habits.

We worked hard and played harder.

We didn’t earn a great wage.

We experienced the happiness of mail call and the sadness of missing important events.

We didn’t know when, or even if, we were ever going to see home again.

We grew up fast, and yet somehow, we never grew up at all.

We fought for our freedom, as well as the freedom of others.

Some of us saw actual combat, and some of us didn’t.

Some of us saw the world, and some of us didn’t.

Some of us dealt with physical warfare, most of us dealt with psychological warfare.

We have seen and experienced and dealt with things that we can’t fully describe or explain, as not all of our sacrifices were physical.

We participated in time honored ceremonies and rituals with each other, strengthening our bonds and camaraderie.

We counted on each other to get our job done and sometimes to survive it at all.

We have dealt with victory and tragedy.

We have celebrated and mourned.

We lost a few along the way.

When our adventure was over, some of us went back home, some of us started somewhere new and some of us never came home at all.

We have told amazing and hilarious stories of our exploits and adventures.

We share an unspoken bond with each other, that most people don’t experience, and few will understand.

We speak highly of our own branch of service, and poke fun at the other branches.

We know however, that, if needed, we will be there for our brothers and sisters and stand together as one, in a heartbeat.

Being a veteran is something that had to be earned, and it can never be taken away.

It has no monetary value, but at the same time it is a priceless gift.

People see a veteran and they thank them for their service.

When we see each other, we give that little upwards head nod, or a slight smile, knowing that we have shared and experienced things that most people have not.

So, from myself to the rest of the veterans out there, I commend and thank you for all that you have done and sacrificed for your country.

Try to remember the good times and forget the bad times.

Share your stories.

But most importantly, stand tall and proud, for you have earned the right to be called a Veteran. 🇺🇸

If you are a veteran, please copy, paste and share.

My dearest friends 🇺🇸❤
 
BarberDave said:
For ALL my Non military FRIENDS out there, this may or may not help you understand those of us that served in the Military.

We Are Veterans.

We left home as teenagers for an unknown adventure.

We loved our country enough to defend it and protect it with our own lives.

We said goodbye to friends and family and everything we knew.

We learned the basics and then we scattered in the wind to the far corners of the Earth.

We found new friends and new family.

We became brothers and sisters regardless of color, race or creed.

We had plenty of good times, and plenty of bad times.

We didn’t get enough sleep.

We smoked and drank too much.

We picked up both good and bad habits.

We worked hard and played harder.

We didn’t earn a great wage.

We experienced the happiness of mail call and the sadness of missing important events.

We didn’t know when, or even if, we were ever going to see home again.

We grew up fast, and yet somehow, we never grew up at all.

We fought for our freedom, as well as the freedom of others.

Some of us saw actual combat, and some of us didn’t.

Some of us saw the world, and some of us didn’t.

Some of us dealt with physical warfare, most of us dealt with psychological warfare.

We have seen and experienced and dealt with things that we can’t fully describe or explain, as not all of our sacrifices were physical.

We participated in time honored ceremonies and rituals with each other, strengthening our bonds and camaraderie.

We counted on each other to get our job done and sometimes to survive it at all.

We have dealt with victory and tragedy.

We have celebrated and mourned.

We lost a few along the way.

When our adventure was over, some of us went back home, some of us started somewhere new and some of us never came home at all.

We have told amazing and hilarious stories of our exploits and adventures.

We share an unspoken bond with each other, that most people don’t experience, and few will understand.

We speak highly of our own branch of service, and poke fun at the other branches.

We know however, that, if needed, we will be there for our brothers and sisters and stand together as one, in a heartbeat.

Being a veteran is something that had to be earned, and it can never be taken away.

It has no monetary value, but at the same time it is a priceless gift.

People see a veteran and they thank them for their service.

When we see each other, we give that little upwards head nod, or a slight smile, knowing that we have shared and experienced things that most people have not.

So, from myself to the rest of the veterans out there, I commend and thank you for all that you have done and sacrificed for your country.

Try to remember the good times and forget the bad times.

Share your stories.

But most importantly, stand tall and proud, for you have earned the right to be called a Veteran. 🇺🇸

If you are a veteran, please copy, paste and share.

My dearest friends 🇺🇸❤
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Excellent @BarberDave
 
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