I'd appreciate your thoughts. Convince me to use an unlicensed remodel contractor in California.

[bosch]

Here's the deal. It's illegal to do contracting work in excess of $500- in the state of California without a contractor's license. This is not a trick question. In fact, I worked for over 40 years in an international engineering and construction company. Oh, by the way, I was in the contracts group. Here's the language from the CSLB website:



Again, not a trick question. I understand the requirement. I also understand that there are some (ahem! ) who do use contractors who are not licensed for remodel work.

We're doing some remodeling to prep Grandma's house for the real estate market. I'd genuinely appreciate feedback about situations where either a licensed or unlicensed contractor was used and whether experiences were good or otherwise.

Full disclosure: I've got a bid from a guy who's been doing good (!?) work in our development for the last 7 years. He's recommended by the realtors who market homes in the area. He's been used by others with success. Nobody has anything bad to report. But... there's the law. I asked him today if he's licensed. He said, yes. He'll send me the info. There's no evidence on the CSLB website that he's licensed now or in the past.

Again, I'm not advocating doing anything unlawful. I just realize that some do use unlicensed contractors, and I'd like to understand some of those experiences. Thanks! Peace

 

[bosch]

Here's the deal. It's illegal to do contracting work in excess of $500- in the state of California without a contractor's license. This is not a trick question. In fact, I worked for over 40 years in an international engineering and construction company. Oh, by the way, I was in the contracts group. Here's the language from the CSLB website:

View attachment 42785

Again, not a trick question. I understand the requirement. I also understand that there are some (ahem! ) who do use contractors who are not licensed for remodel work.

We're doing some remodeling to prep Grandma's house for the real estate market. I'd genuinely appreciate feedback about situations where either a licensed or unlicensed contractor was used and whether experiences were good or otherwise.

Full disclosure: I've got a bid from a guy who's been doing good (!?) work in our development for the last 7 years. He's recommended by the realtors who market homes in the area. He's been used by others with success. Nobody has anything bad to report. But... there's the law. I asked him today if he's licensed. He said, yes. He'll send me the info. There's no evidence on the CSLB website that he's licensed now or in the past.

Again, I'm not advocating doing anything unlawful. I just realize that some do use unlicensed contractors, and I'd like to understand some of those experiences. Thanks! Peace

Asking for a friend.

 

[NurseDave]

I would take recommendations from those that have used someone over simply having a license any day.

 

[bosch]

I realize I've focused on California. But any experiences that apply from any location will be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[GearNoir]

I’d fall on the side of making sure I’m protected in any monetary investments I’m sinking into a remodel. I would never chose someone which whom I have no legal recourse options if something goes south.

Working with people who folks recommend and have proven, reliable results is a close second.

 

[bosch]

I’d fall on the side of making sure I’m protected in any monetary investments I’m sinking into a remodel. I would never chose someone which whom I have no legal recourse options if something goes south.

Working with people who folks recommend and have proven, reliable results is a close second.

Thank you, sir!

 

[The Monkey]

In Maine you can hire anyone. With that said I wouldn't hire someone who isn't insured. Can you be unlicensed and still have insurance in CA?

 

[TobyC]

If they get injured, you're on the hook.

 

[CBLindsay]

Like @TobyC said, there's the injury factor ...but I suspect even a licensed contractor injured on your property could expose you to some form of risk and/or your homeowners insurance either does or does not cover injury of others doing work on your property and has conditions under which it does or does not. SO, setting that part aside because you can call your insurance company to clarify that part and maybe even purchase a short term policy for the project itself to make that a non-issue...

Because I know so little about construction and what is and is not right I would need to have a high level of trust in the people doing the work. Referrals are great but licensure theoretically provides a level of protection or validation I would feel I need. BUT, experience has taught me that the best work is done by those who want to do it, have experience doing it and are motivated to exchange THEIR desire and experience for MY money. I have been harmed or had pathetic quality work done over and over and over and over and over again by traditional licensed workers who lead with the fact they are licensed and close with the fact they are licensed. meanwhile those who lead with "I'm available and willing to do the work you are asking for and I have the experience to meet or exceed your expectations...and I won't leave until you are happy" are the ones who have done the best for me. More often than not they are referred NOT because they were cheap or licensed but because they got the work done as expected.

Licensed contractors are one side of the equation. Municipal inspectors are the other. If you are having work done and intend to be above board, it WILL be inspected by municipal inspectors who are SUPPOSED to verify and validate the work is up to snuff regardless of who did the work. If you use a licensed contractor they should be aware of the codes and make the process quick and easy. If you use an unlicensed contractor or do the work yourself it is possible there will be some code correction issues and delays that add time and expense. either way, in the end the code inspector should validate the work is up to snuff. If you intend to do the work without involving the municipal inspectors AND by using unlicensed contract work you could be setting yourself up for anything and may not know it until you go to sell the property or it burns to the ground.

Many years ago there was a big push to use ONLY licenses contractors. I get it, I really do...but I also think there is a responsibility for the industry to police itself to ensure their licensed contractors are delivering top notch work so people are forced to look for better work. I had an addition built by a local licensed contractor and from the foundation to the swamp cooler on the roof NOTHING is as it should be. AND they took my money and never paid the subs which forced my 5 foot tall 100 pound wife to go down to their office and yell at the 6'6" 300 pound owner in front of his workers. ...and his workers tried to eat my GOAT. the unlicensed guy who did the wiring for my spa dug a20ft long 18" deep trench (because thats code) and rewired the breaker box fixing the mess left by the licensed guys all for $130 and a beer.

 

[bosch]

In Maine you can hire anyone. With that said I wouldn't hire someone who isn't insured. Can you be unlicensed and still have insurance in CA?

Actually you can have insurance and not be licensed. I had a guy who wanted to take out 3 35' trees on our property who had insurance but no license; I didn't hire him. Thanks!

 

[bosch]

Like @TobyC said, there's the injury factor ...but I suspect even a licensed contractor injured on your property could expose you to some form of risk and/or your homeowners insurance either does or does not cover injury of others doing work on your property and has conditions under which it does or does not. SO, setting that part aside because you can call your insurance company to clarify that part and maybe even purchase a short term policy for the project itself to make that a non-issue...

Because I know so little about construction and what is and is not right I would need to have a high level of trust in the people doing the work. Referrals are great but licensure theoretically provides a level of protection or validation I would feel I need. BUT, experience has taught me that the best work is done by those who want to do it, have experience doing it and are motivated to exchange THEIR desire and experience for MY money. I have been harmed or had pathetic quality work done over and over and over and over and over again by traditional licensed workers who lead with the fact they are licensed and close with the fact they are licensed. meanwhile those who lead with "I'm available and willing to do the work you are asking for and I have the experience to meet or exceed your expectations...and I won't leave until you are happy" are the ones who have done the best for me. More often than not they are referred NOT because they were cheap or licensed but because they got the work done as expected.

Licensed contractors are one side of the equation. Municipal inspectors are the other. If you are having work done and intend to be above board, it WILL be inspected by municipal inspectors who are SUPPOSED to verify and validate the work is up to snuff regardless of who did the work. If you use a licensed contractor they should be aware of the codes and make the process quick and easy. If you use an unlicensed contractor or do the work yourself it is possible there will be some code correction issues and delays that add time and expense. either way, in the end the code inspector should validate the work is up to snuff. If you intend to do the work without involving the municipal inspectors AND by using unlicensed contract work you could be setting yourself up for anything and may not know it until you go to sell the property or it burns to the ground.

Many years ago there was a big push to use ONLY licenses contractors. I get it, I really do...but I also think there is a responsibility for the industry to police itself to ensure their licensed contractors are delivering top notch work so people are forced to look for better work. I had an addition built by a local licensed contractor and from the foundation to the swamp cooler on the roof NOTHING is as it should be. AND they took my money and never paid the subs which forced my 5 foot tall 100 pound wife to go down to their office and yell at the 6'6" 300 pound owner in front of his workers. ...and his workers tried to eat my GOAT. the unlicensed guy who did the wiring for my spa dug a20ft long 18" deep trench (because thats code) and rewired the breaker box fixing the mess left by the licensed guys all for $130 and a beer.

Good points, and I agree. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[bosch]

If they get injured, you're on the hook.

Amen, brother! Thanks.

 

[bosch]

So, no license or insurance info to date. Lest anyone is concerned, I will not be hiring him. Thanks for your support.

 

[CBLindsay]

So, no license or insurance info to date. Lest anyone is concerned, I will not be hiring him. Thanks for your support.

That was my concern (like my concern should matter here), that a promise to provide “proof” of licensing etc would go unmet. The guy could very well be a great guy, fantastic tradesman etc but if he can’t own up to the facts and make his case rather than deflect and promise to show proof then go silent none of that matters. Maybe he’ll show up with the proof you need and a great reason he’s been slow to respond...that’s a very common contractor move.

Best of luck with your planned remodel work, I don’t envy the work ahead of you but I do envy the future outcome I’m sure you’ll enjoy.

 

[bosch]

That was my concern (like my concern should matter here), that a promise to provide “proof” of licensing etc would go unmet. The guy could very well be a great guy, fantastic tradesman etc but if he can’t own up to the facts and make his case rather than deflect and promise to show proof then go silent none of that matters. Maybe he’ll show up with the proof you need and a great reason he’s been slow to respond...that’s a very common contractor move.

Best of luck with your planned remodel work, I don’t envy the work ahead of you but I do envy the future outcome I’m sure you’ll enjoy.

Thanks, Chris! I appreciate your thoughts!

 

[Jaro1069]

We had a house fire in Oct 1999 and when we rebuilt we used a licensed contractor with licensed sub contractors and everything licensed. We were supposed to be back in the house in 6 months. Well first we didn't get back in 6 months. We got back home in May of 2001. The contractor wound up being fired and my father took over hiring all the sub contractors and whatnot because the original people were doing many shady things , examples are using one persons dumpster for another site and charging another for said dumpsters , writing bad checks to suppliers.. It got so bad that before my dad fired them all , they were having to buy supplies from 2 or 3 states away because no one would sell to them in our state... My father confronted the contractor for us and the contractor said he fully expected to lose his license over our house if we sued him. We were nice and didn't sue him though. He made a bad judgement in who he hired.. It can happen to any of us and he fixed his errors and is now still in the business.. After my father took over for us the house was finished in less than 6 months and for that I will be eternally thankful.. The moral here is that whether they are licensed or not you Must pay due diligence to the people you have working for you because whether they are licensed or not or whether they come highly recommended or not ( our contractor was considered one of the best in the state) they can and sometimes do have problems with the people that work for them too......So whatever you do , be careful..Also make sure all work is up to code especially in CA And anywhere in FL.

 

[bosch]

We had a house fire in Oct 1999 and when we rebuilt we used a licensed contractor with licensed sub contractors and everything licensed. We were supposed to be back in the house in 6 months. Well first we didn't get back in 6 months. We got back home in May of 2001. The contractor wound up being fired and my father took over hiring all the sub contractors and whatnot because the original people were doing many shady things , examples are using one persons dumpster for another site and charging another for said dumpsters , writing bad checks to suppliers.. It got so bad that before my dad fired them all , they were having to buy supplies from 2 or 3 states away because no one would sell to them in our state... My father confronted the contractor for us and the contractor said he fully expected to lose his license over our house if we sued him. We were nice and didn't sue him though. He made a bad judgement in who he hired.. It can happen to any of us and he fixed his errors and is now still in the business.. After my father took over for us the house was finished in less than 6 months and for that I will be eternally thankful.. The moral here is that whether they are licensed or not you Must pay due diligence to the people you have working for you because whether they are licensed or not or whether they come highly recommended or not ( our contractor was considered one of the best in the state) they can and sometimes do have problems with the people that work for them too......So whatever you do , be careful..Also make sure all work is up to code especially in CA And anywhere in FL.

Wow! Quite a story! Glad for a good outcome. You raise good points. Hiring a contractor (licensed or not) is not for the faint hearted. Thanks @Jaro1069