First Aid, CPR, BLS, PALS, PHTLS, ACLS...EMT?

[dangerousdon]

Okay...this is for all you in the medical/first responder professions out there...

Over the years I have taken a number of First Aid and CPR related classes and courses. Some from the military, some from the Red Cross, and others from various jobs I had. Some of it was more advance than just "apply pressure." My Combat Life Save Course in the military actually had us do IVs on real people...and the training from the Marine Corps taught me how to treat a sucking chest wound. All of this training has one thing in common with each other...I don't remember a lick of it. Okay...I remember some things...but not much...and probably just enough to get sued.

I am looking through various courses and classes...American Red Cross, American Heart Association, National EMS Academy, and even our local colleges and universities for the possibility of an EMT course.

I'll put this out there...I am not interested in seeking out a profession as an EMT...but I would love to have that knowledge and to a lesser extent hold the certifications/licenses.

Anyway...I plan on doing all the First Aid/CPR refreshers to get up to date. But I would love to get more advanced training. I really don't want to spend the huge bucks to go through EMT schooling and the time commitment. But I think I would if that was the only option.

I guess what I am looking for is to see if the Cadre has knowledge of these courses? What is the best bang for my buck? While I understand that I am likely to only encounter situations that might require basic first aid and/or basic first aid...I would still like to be prepared in a situation that EMS takes a while to get to me or if I am in a situation/location that EMS can't get to me.

And before the professionals get all testy...in any of these situations my first action is to call 911. I do know this and would always call 911 in any of these situations.

Thoughts?

 

[Quijote]

When I first took my course, it was through my local fire department because they also ran the EMS service. With us, it was free except for the cost of the book. But we were a volunteer service and they hoped that most people would join once they got licensed. Granted, only 3 out of the 8 of us did.

Check with whoever runs EMS calls in your area. Most of the time they will offer a course or know who will.

I let my license lapse years ago, and have lost some of the knowledge, but it has definitely helped me in my personal life. If nothing else, it teaches you what can and cannot be treated by yourself.

 

[MrCarl1960]

I learned First Aid in Boy Scouts. Not only did they teach it every year, every Jamboree would have an active First Aid display.

When I joined the Navy in '78, I was a little disappointed at the First Aid class. Realizing you have a group of people from different backgrounds, it was harder to teach some guys than it was others.

I keep thinking about going to college to get the EMT Certification. It has always interested me and I ride motorcycles. You see a lot of near misses on the road. If you think you're a good driver, start riding a motorcycles and you will become a better driver. < I didn't believe that, the first time I heard it.

Note: About 70% of all the calls to the Fire Department are medical related. The Fire Departments around here, requires you to have an EMT Cert before they hire you and expect you to become a Paramedic within 6 months.

 

[NurseDave]

Well, back in my pre-nursing days I was an art major, but still pretty interested in the human body. I took anatomy for fun and looked into being a volunteer at the local fire station (never try to pass their physical screening test a few weeks after knee surgery). But I also took the basic EMT class at night at the local community college while going to university for the art stuff. I would look at CCs there to see if they offer anything.

 

[dangerousdon]

When I first took my course, it was through my local fire department because they also ran the EMS service. With us, it was free except for the cost of the book. But we were a volunteer service and they hoped that most people would join once they got licensed. Granted, only 3 out of the 8 of us did.

Check with whoever runs EMS calls in your area. Most of the time they will offer a course or know who will.

I let my license lapse years ago, and have lost some of the knowledge, but it has definitely helped me in my personal life. If nothing else, it teaches you what can and cannot be treated by yourself.

I learned First Aid in Boy Scouts. Not only did they teach it every year, every Jamboree would have an active First Aid display.

When I joined the Navy in '78, I was a little disappointed at the First Aid class. Realizing you have a group of people from different backgrounds, it was harder to teach some guys than it was others.

I keep thinking about going to college to get the EMT Certification. It has always interested me and I ride motorcycles. You see a lot of near misses on the road. If you think you're a good driver, start riding a motorcycles and you will become a better driver. < I didn't believe that, the first time I heard it.

Note: About 70% of all the calls to the Fire Department are medical related. The Fire Departments around here, requires you to have an EMT Cert before they hire you and expect you to become a Paramedic within 6 months.

Well, back in my pre-nursing days I was an art major, but still pretty interested in the human body. I took anatomy for fun and looked into being a volunteer at the local fire station (never try to pass their physical screening test a few weeks after knee surgery). But I also took the basic EMT class at night at the local community college while going to university for the art stuff. I would look at CCs there to see if they offer anything.

I appreciate the thoughts guys! There is an EMT course with our local community college. A Five Hour Semester course. I am thinking of going to their intro seminar to see what the cost is and what not.

We have a local-ish ambulance service that has an EMS academy that look to be okay...but I don't think they run a night course and by every indication it is around $1200 - $1500 dollars. LSU has a Fire and Medical training center with all sort of classes that look to be exactly what I am looking for. The only problem is that in order to take the courses, you have to be sponsored by an agency.

The EMT route is more of a last resort sort of thing for me. There is a level in Louisiana called Emergency Medical Responder (EMR). I am sure other states have this also. Anyway the EMR licensure is intended for people like police, paramedical staff at facilities, some fire professionals, etc. People who might come upon an emergency situation and need a more advanced level of First Aid and CPR until the EMTs/Paramedics arrive. This is more of what I am looking for really...but again...it's not intended for the general public. I know there are a lot of options out there...they are just not easy to find.

 

[CBLindsay]

By way of my previous "profession" I was provided a lot of training and opportunity to use it, the best of it was NEVER part of a simple program taught for the purposes of obtaining a certificate (which was usually necessary for employment because certificates make lawyers happy). Training with opportunity to use the skills learned is always best. That said, the Red Cross has (or had) a more detailed and aggressive course that might very well meet your desires. Many years ago the Red Cross labeled their courses by the number of hours of classroom time they took, I think the one I am thinking of was a 24-36 hour course (vs the typical 4 or 8 hour course). When I did it I was actually an older Boy Scout and it was provided at no charge but I got the impression the class was either expensive or rarely taught in our area.

We have a community college that has a strong nursing program as well as firefighter/EMT program. As a scout leader I had a few of my older, aged out scouts choose to attend the EMT program. I think the training was much more basic than I expected it to be, perhaps because EMT's are being expected (or allowed) to do less and less as more fire departments move toward firefighter-paramedic set ups. The benefit to the EMT program was it was rather short and opened doors for those who would eventually go on to be or do more. The biggest drawback to the program was that the students had pretty significant "I'm all that and a bag of chips" attitudes (I can't say if the teachers contributed). What I noticed was those who recognized that the EMT program they had just completed was a starting point NOT and end point, and embraced the fact there was still much to learn did well and enjoyed some success. Aside from the inflated ego issue, the EMT program would certainly be a great place to go because they provided meaningful training and an opportunity to use it while learning. If you have a community college program available the cost would be minimal in terms of cash but no doubt require a good time commitment.

Another possible place to look is at your community emergency response department. Most communities have a non-professional citizen group of people who have received training in various areas of emergency response. Our local program called...drum roll please...CERT, as in Citizen Emergency Response Team. The training provided is not deep but it is wide, volunteers are trained to address typical mass medical situations that might occur in natural disasters etc. There is a lot of focus on other things like logistics and communications because the CERT people are intended to be a supplement to first responders much in the way the volunteer Citizens on Patrol (COPs) supplement the law enforcement side of things. If you have anything like this in your area I would start there, the people who organize and run the program would not only recognize and appreciate the training you already have, they would be able to point you to the right place to relearn and supplement your skills. ...and if you join the CERT group you might actually get a few opportunities to use some of what you learn. If nothing else you would have a strong understanding of what the emergency first responders will need to allow them to be a impactful as they can be.

 

[NurseDave]

Anyone else curious what Mr. Danger is getting himself into that he might need such training? I'm hoping for a demolition derby.

 

[GearNoir]

Anyone else curious what Mr. Danger is getting himself into that he might need such training? I'm hoping for a demolition derby.

Fatherhood

 

[dangerousdon]

Anyone else curious what Mr. Danger is getting himself into that he might need such training? I'm hoping for a demolition derby.

Fatherhood

While a demolition derby would by awesome (I used to go to them when I was a kid...are they still allowed?) I think Chris is closer to the fact. Yeah...being a father now makes me realize how little I really know about caring for Danger Baby if something happens. The first step in all of this is to take a CPR class of some type that includes pediatric CPR. The American Heart Association has a their Basic Life Support Class that covers this plus if I choose to go on and do some EMT classes, I believe they require you to have this. So this is likely my first stop.

But more to the point...yeah...Fatherhood definitely got me thinking about the situation. But there have been other things too. I work on the 10th floor of a building. Not too long ago, a woman in our office fainted and and then was having some unusual symptoms. 911 was the first thing we did. But...it took EMS a while to get there. About 15 minutes or so. Definitely not faulting the EMTs and paramedics...I know they get there as fast as they can. It turns out that the woman was having an adverse reaction to some new blood pressure medication that she just started taking. All is well, and there is nothing to see here. But what if she needed CPR. Could I remember what to do? Was there someone else there that could perform CPR? What if I am in a situation where Danger Baby or Danger Mama needs CPR or serious first aid. I don't want to have to be dependent on EMS to arrive if there us something I can do to up the chances of their survival.

If 2020 has taught us anything, it's that Crap Happens and Crap can Happen unexpectedly.

The first aid part of this side of the equation is something I need to really search out. I haven't found what I am really looking for. I might have to just take a Red Cross course for the time being to get those skill back in the old brain.

Interested also in the "Stop the Bleed" classes. But they don't have one really close my area. Home | Stop The Bleed

 

[dangerousdon]

By way of my previous "profession" I was provided a lot of training and opportunity to use it, the best of it was NEVER part of a simple program taught for the purposes of obtaining a certificate (which was usually necessary for employment because certificates make lawyers happy). Training with opportunity to use the skills learned is always best. That said, the Red Cross has (or had) a more detailed and aggressive course that might very well meet your desires. Many years ago the Red Cross labeled their courses by the number of hours of classroom time they took, I think the one I am thinking of was a 24-36 hour course (vs the typical 4 or 8 hour course). When I did it I was actually an older Boy Scout and it was provided at no charge but I got the impression the class was either expensive or rarely taught in our area.

We have a community college that has a strong nursing program as well as firefighter/EMT program. As a scout leader I had a few of my older, aged out scouts choose to attend the EMT program. I think the training was much more basic than I expected it to be, perhaps because EMT's are being expected (or allowed) to do less and less as more fire departments move toward firefighter-paramedic set ups. The benefit to the EMT program was it was rather short and opened doors for those who would eventually go on to be or do more. The biggest drawback to the program was that the students had pretty significant "I'm all that and a bag of chips" attitudes (I can't say if the teachers contributed). What I noticed was those who recognized that the EMT program they had just completed was a starting point NOT and end point, and embraced the fact there was still much to learn did well and enjoyed some success. Aside from the inflated ego issue, the EMT program would certainly be a great place to go because they provided meaningful training and an opportunity to use it while learning. If you have a community college program available the cost would be minimal in terms of cash but no doubt require a good time commitment.

Another possible place to look is at your community emergency response department. Most communities have a non-professional citizen group of people who have received training in various areas of emergency response. Our local program called...drum roll please...CERT, as in Citizen Emergency Response Team. The training provided is not deep but it is wide, volunteers are trained to address typical mass medical situations that might occur in natural disasters etc. There is a lot of focus on other things like logistics and communications because the CERT people are intended to be a supplement to first responders much in the way the volunteer Citizens on Patrol (COPs) supplement the law enforcement side of things. If you have anything like this in your area I would start there, the people who organize and run the program would not only recognize and appreciate the training you already have, they would be able to point you to the right place to relearn and supplement your skills. ...and if you join the CERT group you might actually get a few opportunities to use some of what you learn. If nothing else you would have a strong understanding of what the emergency first responders will need to allow them to be a impactful as they can be.

Thanks Chris...You are a fountain of knowledge as always! The EMT route is really just a last resort almost. I don't know if I want to go through all of that training especially at this point in my life when I don't have a lot of spare time. I think it would likely be the most useful though...not just from a practicality standpoint...but from a philosophical life training standpoint as well.

 

[CVargo]

Not too long ago, a woman in our office fainted and and then was having some unusual symptoms. 911 was the first thing we did. But...it took EMS a while to get there. About 15 minutes or so. Definitely not faulting the EMTs and paramedics...I know they get there as fast as they can. It turns out that the woman was having an adverse reaction to some new blood pressure medication that she just started taking. All is well, and there is nothing to see here. But what if she needed CPR. Could I remember what to do?

Years ago! At work we had some dignitaries in from Japan, they where from a coastal region there, honestly don't remember where but that is beside the point. I walked into the bathroom after one of the meetings and there was the CEO of the Japanese company passed out on the floor and had clearly hit his head, and had his pants dropped around his ankles. Thanks to some basic first aid classes I jumped into help mode, rolled him over applied pressure to his head wound, and ensured his airway was open until medics got there. Apparently the long flights, coupled with little sleep, and our higher elevation he just flat passed out. But was pretty scary to see.

 

[Jaro1069]

I did the basic stuff in scouts and then the military training for medical emergencies when I went spec ops when I was active duty and after I got injured I went to a guard units high risk rescue and then the red cross training but during the red cross training I also got my instructor training so I was able to help the red cross in return by teaching others in classes.

 

[Jaro1069]

View attachment 52958


View attachment 52960

While a demolition derby would by awesome (I used to go to them when I was a kid...are they still allowed?) I think Chris is closer to the fact. Yeah...being a father now makes me realize how little I really know about caring for Danger Baby if something happens. The first step in all of this is to take a CPR class of some type that includes pediatric CPR. The American Heart Association has a their Basic Life Support Class that covers this plus if I choose to go on and do some EMT classes, I believe they require you to have this. So this is likely my first stop.

But more to the point...yeah...Fatherhood definitely got me thinking about the situation. But there have been other things too. I work on the 10th floor of a building. Not too long ago, a woman in our office fainted and and then was having some unusual symptoms. 911 was the first thing we did. But...it took EMS a while to get there. About 15 minutes or so. Definitely not faulting the EMTs and paramedics...I know they get there as fast as they can. It turns out that the woman was having an adverse reaction to some new blood pressure medication that she just started taking. All is well, and there is nothing to see here. But what if she needed CPR. Could I remember what to do? Was there someone else there that could perform CPR? What if I am in a situation where Danger Baby or Danger Mama needs CPR or serious first aid. I don't want to have to be dependent on EMS to arrive if there us something I can do to up the chances of their survival.

If 2020 has taught us anything, it's that Crap Happens and Crap can Happen unexpectedly.

The first aid part of this side of the equation is something I need to really search out. I haven't found what I am really looking for. I might have to just take a Red Cross course for the time being to get those skill back in the old brain.

Interested also in the "Stop the Bleed" classes. But they don't have one really close my area. Home | Stop The Bleed

Have you checked to see if the company you work for might be interested in getting the red cross to teach a group of you to be first responders at your work so if something happens you guys could help until ems could get there ? You could even use the story of the person you mentioned to Maybe get them to agree.. Before my mom retired from the company she worked for they had a class by the red cross that she went to for that.

 

[CBLindsay]

Thanks Chris...You are a fountain of knowledge as always! The EMT route is really just a last resort almost. I don't know if I want to go through all of that training especially at this point in my life when I don't have a lot of spare time. I think it would likely be the most useful though...not just from a practicality standpoint...but from a philosophical life training standpoint as well.

I get it, if you are going to invest the time the biggest motivation is to have the knowledge that would benefit you and your family in the event it was needed (daily life, natural disaster or zombie apocalypse). The military typically trains you to address the most common battlefield injuries but also understands that YOU aren’t there to solve the problem only to bridge the gap and give time for the real medical staff to do their thing. If I were to seek out additional training myself, I think I would enjoy (and benefits most from) survivalist themed training. Any formal Red Cross, EMT Etc trainings will naturally assume you have access to traditional first aid equipment and will be handing off to professional medical or a hospital in short order. ‘Survivalist’ training would teach more out of the box thinking and assume you are attempting to solve the problem more completely, even if in the crudest of ways.

I’ve not looked but I imagine there are books and/or blogs that discuss survival medical concepts (the kind of first aid and beyond that assumes little or no access to hospitals in the first 24-48 hours). Maybe a search and rescue type of class.

somewhat of topic, or at least a short rabbit trail from it…I have many firefighter friends who work on military bases or in remote areas and they are continually training on a ton of subjects. sometime back I watched them practicing different rigging set ups that allowed them to precisely move very heavy and unbalanced things or tear apart mangled metal to access ‘victims’. It was Impressive to see how they used various block & tackle set ups and other routine stuff to accomplish massive tasks. These guys presumably have access to heavy or specialized equipment but they were also trained to used what I would call very basic and readily available gear. Watching someone who has developed those skills in action is very exciting, they make it look so much easier than I am sure it is

 

[CVargo]

I remember right after my son was born, at work (4 story building) I was voluntold to be on the "safety committee" no training or anything like that. But our responsibility was if there was a natural disaster it was our to ensure that EVERYONE was out of the building BEFORE we left he building. This was for natural disaster, active shooter, safety drills, etc. I laughed and said if there is a real disaster or an active shooter I am becoming selfish and ensuring I get home to my family. They laughed, I laughed, they thought I was joking, and I wasn't joking.

Good thing 3 days before our big earthquake everyone was sent home due to pandemic.



And look obviously if able I would help anyone I could, but in a real emergency I am not going to purposely go through the whole floor of a building to make sure everyone is safe. Now I would help people on my way OUT! But I will not purposely be the last one out. Some people want to volunteer for stuff like that, some have the training for that, and some are paid to do just that.

 

[Fenster]

passed out on the floor and had clearly hit his head, and had his pants dropped around his ankles.

Sounds like just another Saturday night here...

I remember right after my son was born, at work (4 story building) I was voluntold to be on the "safety committee" no training or anything like that. But our responsibility was if there was a natural disaster it was our to ensure that EVERYONE was out of the building BEFORE we left he building. This was for natural disaster, active shooter, safety drills, etc. I laughed and said if there is a real disaster or an active shooter I am becoming selfish and ensuring I get home to my family. They laughed, I laughed, they thought I was joking, and I wasn't joking.

Unfortunately this happens a lot, I have seen it at multiple companies. Way to often a good idea is implemented so poorly that it can be worse than not having a plan. I once (in 2010) was a Manufacturing Supervisor at a place that made pipe couplers and repair sleeves for water and gas line systems. We did components for anything from 2" to 120" pipe sizes. We had a lot of big presses and very large welders and you can imagine the guys that worked there were pretty tough. The brilliant leadership team implemented a program where if we suspected an employee was under the influence of drugs or alcohol we would report it, get a fellow Supervisor to confirm that there was enough suspicion/cause to have the employee tested, then get them tested. The training to identify someone under the influence was given by a long retired nurse (70 yrs old) with info and presentations that were probably 25 - 30 years old and obviously outdated. The policy was that we were to load this employee (that we just accused of being under the influence) into our personnel vehicle and drive them to the hospital to get tested, just the 2 of us, no one else. When a couple of us supervisors raised concerns about this we were told rather flippantly that we had no other options since our little city did not have a taxi service, Uber or any other option at that time. Well, we refused and made them change the policy.

@dangerousdon, sorry to high jack your thread. I don't have any good suggestions for you as most of my training in this area is out of date and had come from various places that I worked. I think that it is great that you want to refresh and get more training, but I bet you would surprise yourself if anything happened and you needed to help someone. I bet you would remember more of your past training than you think.

I certainly know what it is like to protect and worry about a baby girl, mine graduates from High School next Thursday, enjoy the ride, it goes by way faster than you think.

 

[Jaro1069]

I get it, if you are going to invest the time the biggest motivation is to have the knowledge that would benefit you and your family in the event it was needed (daily life, natural disaster or zombie apocalypse). The military typically trains you to address the most common battlefield injuries but also understands that YOU aren’t there to solve the problem only to bridge the gap and give time for the real medical staff to do their thing. If I were to seek out additional training myself, I think I would enjoy (and benefits most from) survivalist themed training. Any formal Red Cross, EMT Etc trainings will naturally assume you have access to traditional first aid equipment and will be handing off to professional medical or a hospital in short order. ‘Survivalist’ training would teach more out of the box thinking and assume you are attempting to solve the problem more completely, even if in the crudest of ways.

I’ve not looked but I imagine there are books and/or blogs that discuss survival medical concepts (the kind of first aid and beyond that assumes little or no access to hospitals in the first 24-48 hours). Maybe a search and rescue type of class.

somewhat of topic, or at least a short rabbit trail from it…I have many firefighter friends who work on military bases or in remote areas and they are continually training on a ton of subjects. sometime back I watched them practicing different rigging set ups that allowed them to precisely move very heavy and unbalanced things or tear apart mangled metal to access ‘victims’. It was Impressive to see how they used various block & tackle set ups and other routine stuff to accomplish massive tasks. These guys presumably have access to heavy or specialized equipment but they were also trained to used what I would call very basic and readily available gear. Watching someone who has developed those skills in action is very exciting, they make it look so much easier than I am sure it is

My Guard unit did high risk rescues like if someone was trapped on a mountainside or a plane crashed in a remote area or mountains we could rappel in or those of us jump qualified could jump in to administer aid and provide security... I was more security than trained in aid although we all had some training to do either. I was more with the MP detachment.

I remember right after my son was born, at work (4 story building) I was voluntold to be on the "safety committee" no training or anything like that. But our responsibility was if there was a natural disaster it was our to ensure that EVERYONE was out of the building BEFORE we left he building. This was for natural disaster, active shooter, safety drills, etc. I laughed and said if there is a real disaster or an active shooter I am becoming selfish and ensuring I get home to my family. They laughed, I laughed, they thought I was joking, and I wasn't joking.

Good thing 3 days before our big earthquake everyone was sent home due to pandemic.

View attachment 52982

And look obviously if able I would help anyone I could, but in a real emergency I am not going to purposely go through the whole floor of a building to make sure everyone is safe. Now I would help people on my way OUT! But I will not purposely be the last one out. Some people want to volunteer for stuff like that, some have the training for that, and some are paid to do just that.

The type of work thing I was talking about was Not like what you are talking about @CVargo what I meant was if someone had a medical emergency they would page the in house " medical team " to help the person until EMS got there. I wasn't suggesting @dangerousdon Volunteer to be a rescue worker for his building...

 

[dangerousdon]

I’ve not looked but I imagine there are books and/or blogs that discuss survival medical concepts (the kind of first aid and beyond that assumes little or no access to hospitals in the first 24-48 hours).

Supposedly these are some of the best books out there on the subject. Though the SAS survival handbook covers a lot more than just first aid.

I laughed and said if there is a real disaster or an active shooter I am becoming selfish and ensuring I get home to my family. They laughed, I laughed, they thought I was joking, and I wasn't joking.

And look obviously if able I would help anyone I could, but in a real emergency I am not going to purposely go through the whole floor of a building to make sure everyone is safe. Now I would help people on my way OUT! But I will not purposely be the last one out.

To be honest Chad...you would be doing what you are supposed to be doing. All these corporations that have policies in place where someone checks a floor right before a tornado rips the top half off have absolutely no idea what they are doing. You are the most help in a situation by getting yourself safe. If you have a special skill that is one thing. But most of us are not people who have a 9-5 job and play paramedic on the weekend.

If you are talking about an active shooter...this is especially true.

The city of Houston put out a training video on Active Shooter situations a while back. It is in my opinion, and the opinion of a lot of law enforcement that personally know, that this is hands down the best training video ever. It's too the point, and accurate. It's called "Run, Hide, Fight." Spoiler alert...no where in the video does it say get a headcount before leaving the building. I know it is a little off the original topic...but since we are here...the video below is something everyone should watch. Its applicable if you work, or shop at a store, or go to a hospital, etc. It's easy to watch, and the philosophy of "run, hide, fight" sticks with you. Check it out.

 

[Quijote]

Personal safety is always your first priority. If you get injured, you are just one more person for someone else to help.