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Cryogenic Hardened Blades - What's your thoughts

Dave in KY

Shave Newbie
Chad in his Bad Blade series has had some blades that claim to be "ice tempered" to harden them to last longer. The Timor and Van der Hagen make this claim, I believe. It reminded me of a discussion back around 2015 on another forum where treating blades was discussed. I never jumped on the band wagon as my blades last just fine for me already. Here is the place that does it to cartridges as well as a few de blades and claim they last 300% longer if treated https://www.greatrazors.com/ So what are our thoughts on this. Hopefully Shawn will come and jump back on his soap box as he is knowledgeable in this area.
 
This seems so gimmicky to me. Waiting for more knowledgeable people to chime in and possibly prove me wrong.
 
I must admit that I have not even begun to plumb the depths of razor blades as some of you have. My sensitivity to some of the finer intricacies and points of shaving accouterments has only begun developing.

In short I can feel when a blade is sharp, when it’s smooth, and when I don’t like the shave anymore. Lol. ?
 
Ok.... After watching Chad's video and hearing about this I was curious for myself if it was really hype or if there was something to it. I did a little more research on the subject of cryogenic tempering and found out a few things.

First let's start with the normal hardening process.
The simple version is 3 steps. Bring the steel to a specified temperature, hold it there for a specified amount of time, then bring it back to room temperature.
The differences of the steel alloys and the particulars of those 3 steps is where it gets complicated and has a ton of variables.

For something basic like I do, let's say 5160 medium/high carbon steel. You take the steel to 1575 degrees fahrenheit and hold that temperature for 3-5 minutes. This allows austenite to form. Then it gets quenched or rapid cooled allowing the austenite to change to martensite. If it is allowed to cool too slowly, it turns to ferrite instead and you don't get a hardened piece of steel.

After the quench, the steel is very hard, but brittle. The rapid cooling of the quench has frozen the atoms in place and often under a bit of stress. Tempering is the method used to help the steel relax a little and let the grain structure realign making it stronger.
Generally this is done by heating the steel again, but at a much lower temperature than it's austenizing temperature.

Some alloys like the martensitic stainless that I mentioned in Chad's thread use a cryogenic process where the steel is heated, then put in a deep freeze, then heated again.

Now on to what I found out about the cryo-tempering in question. This is the part that I wasn't sure about so I decided to look into it further so I wasn't spreading false information.

If the original heat treat process is done properly and there were no issues, most tool steels/high carbon steels have about 99% martensite. However if things don't go as planned there could only be, let's say an 80% transformation leaving little pockets of austenite. These little pockets create a weakness in the material.

The Cryogenic tempering process brings the material to +300F (or maybe more depending on the specific alloy), rapid cools it to -300F, back up to +300f, then to room temperature.
The cooling to -300 allows fresh martensite to form, but being brittle similar to fresh from a quench, it is brought back to +300F to allow for the realigning/strengthening phase similar to the initial tempering.

So the process doesn't necessarily make a "harder" steel, it makes a denser more stable material by converting the remaining austenite to martensite.

So for things like milling cutters or other tool steels, there can be a significant benefit to the longevity of the tool. Probably even for knives, and I suppose to some extent a razor blade.
I personally do still feel that for a razor blade, it is still gimmicky. The razor blades are so thin that the benefits of it really wouldn't be that noticeable. I'm also not sure how they would treat the blades in the package like the link Dave shared without any deformation to the plastic. Many polymers start to melt at 300F.

However, I did learn that the process is a real thing after the main heat treating process. So I stand corrected. But, I have furthered my own education and made my brain hurt.
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300% longer???? Sweet... then one feather blade would last me 15 months!
 
Thanks for the info shawn. I took a materials class in my university days. It was very interesting and very scientific. Most of it was theory but we did get to do a project to harden some aluminum with grades based on efficiency. If I ever find myself with the chance to start working metal I probably will.
 
There was a test of this over at the other place. Cryo blades and non-cryo blades sent blind for people to compare performance. With the person running the test doing a longer term comparison on longevity. Result was, no difference.
 
There was a test of this over at the other place. Cryo blades and non-cryo blades sent blind for people to compare performance. With the person running the test doing a longer term comparison on longevity. Result was, no difference.
Thanks, I couldn't go there to research and that end result doesn't surprise me.
 
Shawn has explained the tempering process before but this time he did it in a way that sparked an epiphany. It is generally understood that there are a relative few DE blade manufacturers who are ultimately responsible for producing the various brands of blades available. We often wonder how there can be so much variation in DE blade quality and performance if the same few plants are cranking them out. I think part of the reason may lie in the types of steel used and how it is tempered. Shawns explanation made it clear that the same alloy tempered in different ways might be more or less dense and that difference can impact the functionality. Even though a plant might be producing the final product they may be doing so with steel specifically provided by the requesting brand. It may be that the requesting brand also asks for differents grinding specs, or the standard specs aren't compatible with the nature of the steel provided.

My first impression of cryogenic tempering is/was that it is a gimmick BUT to the extent it is a purposeful attempt to improve the product I applaud the effort.
 
Them. I received a refund email from PayPal but nothing from the cryo people.

Guess we know what the real story behind cryogenic blades now...they generate cries from canceled orders and not issuing refunds. ?
 
Guess we know what the real story behind cryogenic blades now...they generate cries from canceled orders and not issuing refunds.
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I meant there was no communication from them as to why the order was cancelled. I didn't request a refund.
 
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