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Baseline soap?

CBLindsay

CBLindsay

I Blame Dave
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Spend any time at all poking around on the The Shaving Cadre (or any other, lesser, forum) and you will notice that a significant amount of time is spent commenting on performance and characteristics of our favorite soaps. Some guys have very formal ranking systems that allow them to rank soaps from barely acceptable to elite, others use less technical descriptions. Our own @Cvargo has a pretty basic but reliable numeric rating system that includes 3 tiers and a series of number ratings for each tier. Other members, like@Dagwoodz, have developed a more complex way of evaluating a soap so that others might benefit from his experience. BOTH have tried to use less subjective ways to rank soaps so others might be able to learn from them.

One thing I that I think gets lost in the ranking systems shared by experienced Cadre members (and those "wonderful" YouTube guru's that purport to be expert soap/lather evaluators worthy of high praise and ad dollars) is that before you can start evaluating and ranking soaps you REALLY need to have a baseline soap to base your evaluation/ranking on. The problem most new (and some experienced) wet shaver's have is that the only option they have is to use the first soap they purchase as a a baseline for the next one they buy, then use the next one as a comparison for the next and the for the first ...ALL while learning how to lather, shave with a new razor and probably while exploring new brushes at the same time.

My views might be a little controversial (or not) but I am going to suggest that a newer wet shaver would be well served to begin with a rather basic shave soap as their baseline. Using a basic soap (not a "bad" or simply "middle of the road" artisan soap) along with full and proper preparation and post shave care would afford the new shaver several valuable opportunities. Not only would they be able to enjoy all the wonderful pageantry involved with a "barber shop" style wet shave at home, they would have the opportunity to fully focus on and learn what role the shaving soap plays in the process. Once the new (or experienced) shaver has a full understanding of the role a basic shaving soap plays they will be able to identify how other soaps compare to the baseline.

In my experience the best baseline soaps are vintage shaving soaps. I have run across some bad vintage soaps (Colgate mug, I'm looking at you!) but most are pretty good performers, the tonsorial soaps in particular have been very solid performers. Why do I love the vintage soaps so much? They are "just soap", they are usually made with simple "basic" shaving soap formulations designed to produce a slick and protective lather, nothing more. TIME has rendered them free of scent and as mellow as can be. Some vintage soaps might require a little bit of a learning curve compared to a tub of modern artisan croap but the payoff is worth the effort. A good vintage soap can teach you so much about what a lather can be and how little changes in technique can alter the type of lather you will get. The things you learn when working with a vintage lather will help you get the best from all the new artisan soaps you end up acquiring.

If I consider Williams Tonsorial or Colgate Tonsorial as my baseline I am able to evaluate how well a soap lathers, the type of lather I can get using different brushes, the slickness/residual slickness, the cushion or protective effect and whether or not the soap dries my skin. The tonsorial soaps ALWAYS perform as expected provided I do my job. By comparison, I have an old Colgate Mug puck that is combative, lacks residual slickness and dries my skin no matter what i do. If the Tonsorial pucks (Colgate and Williams) were my ZERO on the number line the Colgate Mug would be a -1. My old Williams pucks and a Colgate CUP puck that can be finicky but not to the extent that the Colgate Mug puck can be so I guess they would either be a negative to the baseline or perhaps a more appropriate baseline. I REALLY enjoy my vintage tonsorial soaps and other vintage soaps I have collected over the years so it is still possible to place a high value on your baseline soap(s). Don't confuse Baseline with other descriptions like "middle of the road".

So. I use what I consider to be excellent quality vintage tonsorial soaps as my baseline soap, what do you use? Or...How would you establish the ZERO in your number line?
 
I've stating in some of my videos (Yes, I know you've watched them all Chris, but I'll reiterate here for the general public) that I use Stirling as my baseline. For a few reasons. The most important is this is cut-off performance wise for me. Anything lesser, I'm not using no matter what it smells like. Great scent that is also unique, I'll use a Stirling level soap. But for the most part I'm looking for something with better performance. Stirling is also something most people are familiar with so it's a common ground. I've never used a vintage or even a "classic" soap.
 
Nice thoughts Chris and I love my Vintage Tonsorial's for sure. Just recently had a couple shaves with Tonsorial Williams. Definitely a good baseline (y)
 
You've touched on something that I've noticed. And I'm not sure how I feel about it either. Folks getting into a hobby, and dumping a lot of money into it before having a clue of how to do the hobby or what actually works for them. I mean there's no point in judging, but I prefer the 'use something until you really know it' method in general.

With wet shaving I used one razor and soap for over a year, when I knew my technique was good, then I could actually see the limitations in the gear I as using and stepped up to a 2nd razor, tried a few soaps and settled on one (if you know me you know what that is) which again I used solely for over a year.
Now I'm good with experimenting, but notice every time my collection grows, I need to stop for a while to really get to know what I've got.

Maybe it's my background as a yoga teacher, where it was really ingrained in me, basics, basics, basics. Get teh basics down and the fancy stuff will come on it's own, which it did. I tend to approach most things that way still.
 
I think for the most part I'm along the same lines as @NurseDave. But Stirling being my baseline has more to do with consistent performance no matter what I'm using, once I figured out how to dial it in. I think Stirling is going to be a lot of people's baseline for the same reason. It just hits all the marks that most of us would consider critical points; slickness, primary and secondary, cushion, post shave feel (no matter how you feel about the topic), ease of lathering, and I'm sure I'm forgetting another category. While they don't go beyond "very good" in any of those qualities, they also don't go below, in my experience.

All that being said, I've been thinking a lot recently that it's becoming increasingly more difficult to separate artisans from one another because of how well their products are designed, aside from the gimmicky stuff. That's been a thing for a while now, but I don't think that B&M is alone at the top anymore like it used to be.

So ranking things objectively is becoming increasingly difficult because of how well products perform. Using Stirling as a baseline is more of a formality for me. It doesn't really matter how I rank things as long as it doesn't burn my face when I paint it on or leave my face feeling like it's going to crack if I smirk.

And that's why we can't stop at McDonald's to get you a Happy Meal.

What was question again? 🤣
 
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I shouldn't speak for @Cvargo but since he's not here right now I will. I suspect he might have considered Soap Commander a baseline soap at one point, he certainly used it a lot and holds it in high regard.

I will reiterate for those who might jump to this point without paying attention to ALL that I have said above. A baseline soap doesn't have to be a poor quality soap and isn't the same as a "middle of the road" soap. @NurseDave gave a great reason for considering Stirling as his baseline, it is the least he will accept in a soap. Again, not a slam on the soap but a zeroing of expectations. That said, my initial description of a baseline soap was intended to be a little different, I initially meant it to be more of a basic quality soap ...BUT I kind of like where Dave went with his use of baseline. Still, I think it is the fact that Dave has experience with lesser soaps that he appreciates the qualities present in Stirling and has set them as a benchmark.

I think it is pretty safe to say if a new wet shaver picked up a tub of Stirling soap and learned to lather and shave with it as his/her baseline soap they would not be unhappy and they would be well positioned to evaluate other soaps they encounter along the way.

Maybe we are talking about two different things here Baseline vs benchmark?
 
Tabac is my baseline, both for scent and for performance. It is one of those soaps where you always know what you are getting. It even comes in any color you want, as long as that color is black. If something doesn't perform at least as good as Tabac it is probably not worth it.

EDIT: It also has the benefit of being easy to lather correctly. It is consistent in every respect for me.

EDIT 2: I also love the scent. Full stop.
 
I also think that Tabac would be a good starting point for any new wetshaver to learn the ropes. The soap hits all the right performance notes while being forgiving of lathering mistakes.
 
I don't think Stirling is what I would consider a baseline. It's a step up from that. I"d consider it to be more of a staple. It's very economical and does everything it needs to. I recommend Stirling as a good starter soap for someone, but it's not a learning soap.

I agree that new folks should not start out with an amazing artisan soap. First of all they are kinda pricey, and when youre starting out, most folks want cheap. Secondly you need to learn how to lather! If you buy a $25 tub of soap that lathers instantly and has amazing properties all around, then you haven't learned anything..... and everything you use after that is a step down. You might use a lesser performing soap and say it's crap because your expectations are higher, when really your technique wasn't built up enough to get everything out of it.

While I agreee that vintage soaps could be a good baseline, they are out of reach for some new to wetshaving because they are harder to find and do cost a bit if you have to resort to ebay to find them. My favorite baselinesoaps are the melt & pour soaps. Things like Van der Hagen, Col Conk, or Mama Bears. These are perfect soaps for learning basic lathering skills. They are cheap, and easy to find. Most folks can go to the nearest grocery store and find a puck of VDH.

And while I wouldn't necessarliy recommend it as a first soap.... a great teaching soap is Modern Williams. If you can lather Modern Williams, you can lather anything!
 
This is an excellent thread!

And yes @CBLindsay Soap Commander in my opinion is a great baseline as is Tabac. For creams I use Nivea Sensitive in the tube.
 
Well, I had all my nonsense meticulously typed out and then the experienced shavers bestowed upon me solid logic and reasoning.

To @Spider's point on Col Conk being a learning soap, I actually used the one puck I had to practice lathering on my hand. I actually entirely forgot about that.
 
I'm glad you brought up the melt and pour soaps @Spider. I have no experience (no Good experience anyway) with any of the quality melt and pour stuff that is readily available but I hear some of it is pretty good. In particular I hear the new Col Conk is pretty amazing. Since so many that come to the hobby do it with value and savings in mind (initially) you are right to point out that a $20-$25 tub of artisan soap is not a goo starting point. My first "expensive" soap was D.R. Harris, had I bought that and only that and learned to use it I don't think I would have been unhappy with the value or experience but I am certain I would have missed out on some much better experiences. In fact, looking back I guess D.R. Harris is kind of like a baseline soap too. only with a mild scent.
 
My Baseline would have to either be VdH which also happens to have been my first soap, and Arko. I know a lot a people hate the way Arko smells, it is the absolute definition of consistency for me. Plus is comes in sticks or a tub(never used the tub version but i think its the same thing). I haven't had any experience with vintage soaps as of yet nor with modern williams so i can't weigh in on those but for me MWF was a great teacher for me in building a solid lather.
 
I enjoy my shave gear for what it is. If I like it, I’ll use it more.

I’ve only really been dissatisfied with a few things, the rest I’ve either loved from the get go or come to love over time, even if I’d not reorder them again

If I had to pick a baseline soap, I’d say that decent melt-n-pour soaps like the ones that Honey Bee Sue made are my baseline, but just about everything is on par or surpasses it (from classics to artisan made). Most of these might be one time purchases, love em while you have em, but that’s it.

If I had to pick a benchmark soap, it would be from the realm of things I loved from the get go, things I “savor” if you will, and would want to reorder when the time came; essentially we’re talking what I consider to be elite. Of what I’ve tried so far, we’re talking Grooming Dept, CBL, and SV.
 
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